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The Mills Romanhead I have has always paid out correctly, until this weekend. On Saturday morning started ok, paid out correctly on plums and cherries, but found later in the day it started to be temperamental. Would pay out correctly on 2 cherries ( 2 pennies), 2 cherries +bell (4 pennies), 2 cherries + lemon (4 pennies), but 3 oranges or 3 plums, or 3 bells and even jackpot has stopped paying out.
Anybody got any advice on what could be happened and how to solve the problem

Could be lots of things Alan.
Up turned coins in the slides.
Thin coin jamming between slides.
Springs come loose.

Force a major win, and extract the mechanism.
Look at it from the front, have the requisite slides retracted all of the way back as they should? If not something inside the slides isn't lying flat. Remove the coin tube and look inside the slides. You should see the culprit(s).

Otherwise check the springs on the vertical and the horizontal fingers. Finally check the springs that pull back the slides on a win.

If none of the above clears it then count the "clunks".
Play it, and as it cycles you should hear 5 clunks ......
1 First reel stop engages
2 Second reel stop engages
3 Third reel stop engages
4 Vertical fingers released to search a winning line
5 Slide bundle released to complete cycle

Get back to us if it's still misbehaving and we'll think up some new swear words for you to threaten it with.

BP

On top of the list, check your coin stock too. Anything bent, worn too thin or dirty can prevent slides from releasing, in your case its the upper ones. I always head straight to the coin tube, take it off and for me 95% of time its an upturned or crap coin. 5% of the time the upper slide plate bolts have come loose so the slides pop up and jam, or the slide plate bolts are too tight and the upper slides cant retract. I managed to pick up some lovely uncirculated 1d coins from a flea market (200 for 15 quid) and rarely see issues now.

Hi BP

Thanks for the reply, yes done all you have said yesterday, only use uncirculated pennies so bad thin coins can be ruled out, springs levers seem to be ok, even too out the coin slides.

Noticed that when a winning line has been achieved, the vertical fingers only go into 2 reels?, if pressure is applied to the vertical finger, it does go through the hole in the reels, but only a small amount of pennies are won.

I have forced a major win by holding the horizontal fingers to one side, although a large of pennies are won, it hasn't sorted out the correct payout problem.

When you say the vertical finger is only going through two discs ,what is stopping it from gong all the way is it catching the edge of the payout disc? because your low payouts are working this failure of the finger is the most likley problem as all the payout that are working are two disc payouts. is a stronger spring enough to make the difference?

alan57 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:10 pm Hi BP

Thanks for the reply, yes done all you have said yesterday, only use uncirculated pennies so bad thin coins can be ruled out, springs levers seem to be ok, even too out the coin slides.

Noticed that when a winning line has been achieved, the vertical fingers only go into 2 reels?, if pressure is applied to the vertical finger, it does go through the hole in the reels, but only a small amount of pennies are won.

I have forced a major win by holding the horizontal fingers to one side, although a large of pennies are won, it hasn't sorted out the correct payout problem.

There's your answer then Alan.
If pulling the horizontal fingers to one side works but it's not cured, then it is the vertical fingers. Especially as you describe them slamming short. As Paul said above shorter springs on the Vertical Fingers are needed.
To work out how short, remember that when a V Finger has come to rest at the end of its travel (be it 1,2 or 3 discs) its spring still needs to be slightly under tension otherwise it won't get there. Or if it does get there it might not be quick enough before the 5th clunk.

Just a thought, sometimes horizontal fingers get sticky and don't want to move easily. Check them all out by stopping the cycle mid spin (stopping the fan) and then check how freely each H Finger pivots out of the way.

BP

Thanks for all your suggestions, will have more time to look at it next weekend.

Just another tangent, I have rarely had spring issues as little pressure should be needed to move the finger and horizontal finger across unless the spring is really knackered or something is not allowing the fingers to move, most common issue from my experience is a timing issue where the slide release lever moves before the horizontal levers do, so locking them. Can be a fraction of an adjustment

You're right there Tom, I've just got my Horse Head Bonus behaving itself that way.
The pay outs weren't being effected but the B O N U S letters were doing their own thing because the 4th and 5th clunks were almost simultaneous and absorbing too much energy needed to successfully engage the BONUS mechanism.
Tweaking the timing separated the actions enough for each to do its thing.

Which brings us to the next question, how do you adjust that calibration?
(Here follows no attempt to tell anyone about sucking eggs, it helps me to picture in my mind what I'm waffling about)
Clunks 1,2 and 3 rely on the slide bar moved by the clock.
Clunk 4 is the support arm holding the V Fingers back, again operated by the clock.
Clunk 5 again is the same slide bar 1, 2 and 3 rely on when it releases the slide bundle.

The only way I can see to increase the time gap between 4 and 5 is to change the height of the roller bar on top of the clock that tilts the angled bar where it rides up removing the supporting arm letting the V Fingers drop. It seems the safest way to me as it doesn't impinge on the interfacing of other parts of the mech.
What do others do?

BP

badpenny wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:46 pm
Clunks 1,2 and 3 rely on the slide bar moved by the clock.
Clunk 4 is the support arm holding the V Fingers back, again operated by the clock.
Clunk 5 again is the same slide bar 1, 2 and 3 rely on when it releases the slide bundle.

The only way I can see to increase the time gap between 4 and 5 is to change the height of the roller bar on top of the clock that tilts the angled bar where it rides up removing the supporting arm letting the V Fingers drop. It seems the safest way to me as it doesn't impinge on the interfacing of other parts of the mech.
What do others do?

BP

This is what I do (or did as the case may be):

The 4th clunk timing can be adjusted by slackening off the locknuts, screwing in or out the 8 - 32 hex bolt and tightening the locknuts again. That's photo 6 on the Mills High Top user manual. Part "J" is the timing lever (MLB-7659-CSP) and part "K" is the adjusting bolt with locknuts (MLB-7657). The Roman Head machine might not have this arrangement fitted but I can't find a pre 1947 Mills user manual so I can't comment on the old designs. Watch out for the nuts! They tend to work loose so it's a good idea to put cheapo nail varnish on the threads. It works better than Locktite and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Sorry Chris, I don't know what lock nuts and 8 - 32 hex bolt you're describing.
Any chance of a photo?

BP

These photos from the 1930s operators manual might help you describe the parts you mean to BP. Yes, the machine is different from the Hi-top. As I'm sure you know, the names we give Mills machines today are not always the name the factory used. What we call a "Roman Head" was sold by the factory as the "Golden Bell". The 1st photo is from an original sales flyer.

chris rideout wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:44 pmSorry, can't paste an image from a PDF

You could post the PDF.

There’s a Golden Bell on tonight’s episode of “back in time for the corner shop” bbc 2.

A one arm bandit seemingly freely available to play by buying tokens from the corner shop owner in 1926.Not heard of that before in the UK.

pennymachines wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:16 pmYou could post the PDF.

I copied the images above and zoomed them up to see the small details but there was no rear view. Unfortunately, the innards look different in several places so there must have been several improvements made in the post war years.

Alan, I assume this was your machine as description on eBay matching thread. Really odd on eBay at the moment as during lockdown machines were not getting pulled at all by eBay, but now they seem to be again slowly. This machine and a few others I have noticed recently have had bids on and then they all get retracted, can’t work out why.

Anyway, I am intrigued with the machine. Did you do the restoration? I only ask, as I recall in my head there was a restorer who always painted the tops of screws as part of their work and there is a lot of detailing on this machine. Maybe wrong. but was this Mick Harris or maybe I am thinking of someone else?

It is a useful reference for me, as I was working on a similar machine and another old penny '30s machine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mills-Romanh ... 1438.l2649

Hi Tom

Yes it was my machine. Many weeks ago now I tried everything that people had mentioned on how to fix the problem, without much success.

Chris in Crosby said he would look at the machine for me to find out the problem. That was before the country went on lockdown, and nothing has been done to the machine since then.

I put the Mills Romanhead on Ebay as a none working machine - which it is now. Wasn't sure if I still needed a license for a none working machine Got plenty of messages of interest, but as I mentioned in the auction it was to be delivered due to the lockdown.

I think people put bids on, then read about the machine being non working and needed to be delivered and then retracted their bids. One person retracted his bid then put a bid back on days later only to retract it again.

In the end I just got fed up, so I pulled it. I know that was wrong.