Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

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slotalot
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by slotalot »

Hello All :cool:
Sorry for the late appearance to the party, not been able to log onto the forum !PUZZLED!
So first a big Thank you to our Commander in chief Dave and his apprentice Jeremy for sorting out the glitch |/XX\|

Down to business :didact:

Hoopers Pinball Machine.

This machine when new never had mains power. The lower compartment on the head box (pic1) would have had a 12-volt battery. This would have made the machine portable and could be used anywhere. The transformer you can see was added later, and as far as I could tell, it had never been connected up.
The circuit for this machine is about as simple as they come: the large square coil to the right of the score mech adds the score, and the smaller round (black) coil resets the score on game start; the little round plug to the right connects the head box to the playfield; the item to the far left is the anti-tilt switch.

As to the playfield, (pic2)
On putting a coin in the machine, the coin slide engages with the steel bar that runs the full length of the playfield. This “mechanically” releases the balls into play. It also makes a leaf switch that resets the score pointer, and also energises the adjacent relay. This is the anti-tilt relay. The coin slide must be fully withdrawn before play can start. The steel bar is fitted with an adjustable damper to make it a smooth operation.

The playfield is made of stainless steel and grounded to the -ve of the 12 volt DC supply. The spring bumpers are wired in series to the +ve of the 12 volt DC supply. The black box to the right is a capacitor/spark suppressor. The metal ball makes the contact between the playfield and the spring bumpers.
On the machine that I restored, I used a 12 volt DC plug-in adaptor, rated at 2amps, because I didn’t want mains electricity inside the machine, because of all the “live” metal parts.

For the machine to work efficiently the ball, playfield and bumper springs must be kept clean and free of oil and grease. I found when striping and cleaning the machine the original paint colour was chocolate brown.

I hope this helps a little.

Stuart.

Good luck with the restoration. !!THUMBSX2!!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by geofflove »

Thanks for taking the time to reply Stuart. Looks like you’ve done a great job with yours!

All this info is really helpful and will definitely help me make a speedier start in sorting it.

Out of interest how many balls did you get for one coin? You said they were all released at once. Did the plunger just use the ball queue up one at a time as you played till they were gone?

I’ll post some progress pics once I get going!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by slotalot »

geofflove wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:17 pm

Out of interest how many balls did you get for one coin? You said they were all released at once. Did the plunger just use the ball queue up one at a time as you played till they were gone?

I don't have the machine anymore, but as far as I remember, and it was 10 years ago, there were 5 steel balls, cant remember the size but I don't think the size is critical |/XX\| once released the balls just roll in front of the plunger one at a time. :D
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by badpenny »

Thanks Stuart for rallying to the flag when needed.
I'll let you drift back to sleep beneath the halls of the gods set deep within the mountains of Olympia.

Should I need to awaken you again with the fiery horn of Shefras in order to clarify an issue, I'll send you an email first.
Regards
BP !!COOEE!!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by gameswat »

Well sorry for casting aspersions your way BP! I'm amazed they tried to partly reinvent the already very reliable spring bumpers. I can only imagine it was a much cheaper way to produce the game by not having to draw and apply any kind of artwork!? Sadly makes for an extremely boring looking game. Even if they'd applied pre-existing water decals around the playfield like lightning bolts would have been a huge improvement. Considering the flashy graphics and much more complex gameplay of US made pins they were competing against these must've had a hard time on location.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by pennymachines »

I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s, in which case they may have been competing with fairly primitive, largely mechanical, American pinballs. Is that spring bumper diagram from a dated patent? Certainly Hoopers games are consistently conservative in design.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by badpenny »

gameswat wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:07 pm Well sorry for casting aspersions your way BP! I'm amazed they tried to partly reinvent the already very reliable spring bumpers. I can only imagine it was a much cheaper way to produce the game by not having to draw and apply any kind of artwork!? Sadly makes for an extremely boring looking game. Even if they'd applied pre-existing water decals around the playfield like lightning bolts would have been a huge improvement. Considering the flashy graphics and much more complex gameplay of US made pins they were competing against these must've had a hard time on location.
No probs my friend. It's all about learning at the end of the day.
I certainly agree it's the epitome of how not to entice slackening of purse strings, they'd obviously never considered self marketing as an essential part of design. I once had Hooper's vertical bagatelle machine, an engineering masterpiece with a scoring dial mechanism to wonder at. Yet it weighed a ton and made no attempt to suggest why you should play it. Totally lacking in suggestions like "Challenge your friends!!" or "Loser buys next round" It just sat there apologetically.

BP :cool:
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by gameswat »

pennymachines wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm Is that spring bumper diagram from a dated patent?
This is Bally's Patent No. 2,109,678 ("CONTACT SWITCH FOR BALL ROLLING GAMES") application made on January 12, 1937. Though Bumper had already been placed on sale in Dec 1936. Bally certainly didn't steal the idea from Hooper.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by gameswat »

pennymachines wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s, in which case they may have been competing with fairly primitive, largely mechanical, American pinballs.
PM, the yanks were very quick to copy each other and then make improvements. I've owned some very clever pinballs from the 1930's as the pin industry boomed and hence was a very creative time period. This Confucius Say pinball by Rotor Table games of NY is one of my faves for many reasons. The table body itself dates 1935/36 but the playfield dates early 1937, only a few months after Bally introduced the new spring bumpers. Already there were added scoring features like a bonus system down the left side which advances balls. This game is unusual in that it was aimed at high end locations like restaurants and nightclubs etc that would not normally take a pinball. The playfield rotates around to any of up to 4 players seated around it, but the glass stays put! The table was designed to take a number of different playfields that just plug into it, predating cocktail video cabinets that did this by 45 years.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by pennymachines »

gameswat wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:20 pm the pin industry boomed and hence was a very creative time period.
Absolutely, by 1935 all-mechanical pins were looking 'old hat'.

Slotalot's Skill Score has the "Supplied by Hoopers' Automatics" badge on it. Assuming it has the Pentonville address, it was made after the outbreak of WW2 (when the company moved from their old premises in Islington). In that case, it really was already a bit of a dinosaur.

Image

Marketing didn't extend to giving it a unique name. "Skill Score" comes from the text and appears on one of their wall machines too.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by slotalot »

pennymachines wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s,
as I was awake anyway...... lol.
I thought I would add this... The badge on the machine I had states, 146 Pentonville Road, as Hoopers' address, and according to Paul Braithwaite, they relocated there in 1934, so that should give us the earliest date for manufacture. !THUMBS!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by gameswat »

PM, I'd suggest you're very likely right about a wartime built machine. I think they recycled those Bally style spring bumpers in a simpler way to save on the trouble of screening playfields, and the scoring unit appears to be a ripoff from the Daval American Beauty of June 1934. I have a spare unit here after having restored the machine for a friend. Since it uses Bally bumpers then it can't be earlier than Dec 1936.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by geofflove »

Well mine arrived today. A bit of a state as expected, but seems to be all there apart from the cash box cover so a good start. Appears to have all 5 balls too!

Will need a total strip as all the metal bits mechs are rusted but not beyond recovery I don’t think. Will also need a total rewire I suspect as the insulation is falling off in places.

First challenge will be to get into it. The two large screws on the top edge nearest the player appear to be the key to opening it are totally rusted in. I’ll have a go with a screw extractor but failing that I might have to drill the heads off and then replace the top strip of wood.
Lots of fun to come....
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by slotalot »

geofflove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:14 pm The two large screws on the top edge nearest the player appear to be the key to opening it are totally rusted in.
Try heating the screws with a hot soldering iron, that might free them up. |/XX\|
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by gameswat »

geofflove wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:14 pm The two large screws on the top edge nearest the player appear to be the key to opening it are totally rusted in.
Are they actually screws geoff? On any other pinball those are coach bolts that have nuts to be undone once the door is off inside the upper door edge. Screws wouldn't make sense as anybody could get into the machine. But having said that Hoopers seemed to have done things their own way, so who knows!?! :o
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by geofflove »

No they are not screws! Thanks - my cursory look ignored this fact! They are now out, revealing two things....

Firstly, the thing has been eaten by worms at some time. They only seem to have been interested in the ply playfield. It’s mostly OK, but feels slightly soft in a couple of places. Just battling with my conscience as to whether to replace the ply - lots of work drilling, refitting and wiring all those bits - or to leave be. I'm erring in leaving be, although I do wonder if I should do a woodworm treatment just in case they are still at it in there? I don’t really need to buy 5 litres of the stuff though! Any thoughts?

The second thing is that mine might be a mark 2 compared to Stuart’s, and it might solve the reason for the difference of opinion about how they work....

The metal playfield in mine is connected to 0v. However the ball is not used as a connection, the playfield merely serves to connect all the bumper springs. There are then brass tabs with a hole beneath each spring which the spring hits, completing the circuit, as someone else described. See pics. I assume mine came later, maybe due to the probs Stuart described with having to keep it so clean.

I’m wondering on mine if the capacitor ‘thing’ also serves to dampen spring bounce causing multiple scoring when hit, as I can imagine a bit of a ‘boing’ effect?!

It looks like the green of mine is original compared to Stuart’s brown. Maybe denoting mk 2! A bit like having a vinyl roof.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by brigham »

The hole through which the end of the bumper spring protrudes is frighteningly small.
It will certainly register at the slightest touch; but setting the springs, especially after years of use, looks like being a major job.
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by badpenny »

The thick plottens! !PUZZLED!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by slotalot »

geofflove wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:57 am
The second thing is that mine might be a mark 2 compared to Stuart’s and it might solve the reason for the difference of opinion about how they work....
Very Interesting, but not entirely unexpected.
We have to remember that these machines were made long before any sort of standard or kite mark was applied. Tthey would to some extent be "making it up as they go along".

My opinion is that your machine would have come first, as they would have been trying to copy the American design, but with the absence of the carbon ring forming the contact with the metal pin, and the small hole size, leads me to think that there was more chance of the metal to metal contact welding shut due to the spark. If this was to happen, it could lead to damage of the score up coil, or even a fire. :oops:

My second reason for thinking yours came first is, why would they alter the design and make the machine more costly to build? !PUZZLED! By doing away with the pin and ring, and replacing it with the ball making direct contact, you do away with a lot of extra parts. There is no adjustments to make and keep up with, and it would be quicker and cheaper to produce.

These machine were never meant to be of high quality, but back in the day they would have been quite a novelty as most pinballs of this date didn't use electricity. :zapa:

I rest my case. !SURRENDER!
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine

Post by geofflove »

Interesting! Yes you could be right in terms of order of production. The hole is very small - that was my first thought too! Actually alignment doesn’t look as bad as i first feared. You can rotate the springs quite easily for one axis of movement and the ‘holes’ can be moved through the other axis. Of course how long they will stay aligned in use is quite another matter.

I guess the big capacitor was partly to stop the arcing although how much we will see. I’m also doubtful about how much capacitance will be left in mine. I don’t really want to remove it but guess I might need to maybe add another in if this is a problem once up and running.
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