Matthewson (Automatic Sports Co.) games

American, British, French or German? We want to know about it.
User avatar
bob
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:06 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: Australia

Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Post by bob »

When I spoke with you on the phone Rory I wasn't sure of the Golf machine date but wrongly thought that it was quite a bit later than the football. When I checked today I found that the actual dates are not that far apart. 1899 for the two man footballer and 1903 for both the six man footballer and the golf machine, as you've already found from the patents and Braithwaite etc. I also have dated postcards of the Football and Golf machines side by side on location just after the turn of the century with the Golf having the tall marquee.
I doubt the Golf machines used recycled Football machine cases as they came out at the same time as the six man footballer. The mermaid cased gun machines did not use surplus recycled Yacht race cases, they were Yacht race games brought back from location and converted to gun machines as the Yacht race games were not profitable. They took so long to play that they were not popular and did not make as much money as a quick gun game. This is why there is only one Yacht Race remaining world wide as it came to Australia before they were converted in the UK.
Attachments
Yacht Race.jpg
Yacht Race.jpg (22.38 KiB) Viewed 3715 times
Yacht Race Close Up.jpg
Yacht Race Close Up.jpg (21.16 KiB) Viewed 3715 times
Last edited by bob on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 21
Location: perth, australia

Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Post by gameswat »

I certainly didn't mean to imply there were NOS cases of any kind sitting around the Mathewson factory!
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Post by pennymachines »

Welcome Tom to PennyMachines.co.uk and congratulations on your splendid purchase!

I believe at least two of our members here have Sport Co. Golfers, but in view of the machine's value, might understandably shy away from identifying themselves. Perhaps you'll be contacted by PM or email though. Further to the fascinating input from Bob and Gameswat, all I can offer is a larger version of the old Bolland photo Bob posted, and another picture which Bryan's Fan gave me yesterday (from a Bolland negative, I think).
Attachments
golf.jpg
golf2.jpg
User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 21
Location: perth, australia

Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Post by gameswat »

Tom, from the photos and machine history it looks like it was probably converted to take a nickel? If so, possibly the coin return was removed as it wasn't an easy conversion? I've seen this happen a bit on English/Euro machines in the States. I have done very minor work on one of these Golf machines but was over 10 years ago and not my machine, so little memory of how it worked and I never bothered to take any photos sadly. The back door is just a flat steel plate so easy enough to make. Though to do it justice would be nice to find some antique steel which will have a rough surface where it was hand rolled in a press I guess? I'll bet those men are loose after over 100 years of putting! Games like these always get extra thrashing too because kids will endlessly pull levers to see movement without having to spend any money. Seems doubtful the machine has ever been properly restored, just repaired by operators. So at some point when you have the time and commitment you'll need to pull the whole thing apart on a bench and look closely at every single piece. That's the only way to truly find out which bolts, shafts, wires, rods etc are worn and need repair or replacement, and what is ok. I have to do this even on electro-mech machines that are only 30 + years old, so the Golf will definitely need the attention to get it back to "chip shot shape". Say that ten times quickly!
sweetmeats
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:33 am
Reaction score: 5

Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Post by sweetmeats »

The machine you have is extremely rare and think you brought it very cheaply even without a stand, I know of only two others in the states one came from Australia and one from England also there are still two in England if there are still any in Australia Bob would know. As a member of COCA I suggest that you ask other collectors as I know a member has one I saw it on a COCA visit to Boston he did not what it was however I told him it was from a British machine [ thinking of the football machine] and would be worth at least $5000 to anyone who had a top and wanted a stand. For a golfer would be worth $10,000 the last time one sold complete was over $50,000 . Going onto the thread of the shooters I understood the mermaids were converted on site to shooters and operated by Matherson I have never seen a castle/lighthouse on any postcard on site however if examined closely the only alteration from the mermaid top is the small shell to the top is replaced by a small battlement the seaweed design to the top remain as does the fish coin entry
User avatar
bob
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:06 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: Australia

Re: Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15

Post by bob »

Topic split from Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15 and merged - Site Admin.

I imagine the high estimate and amazing result for the Mermaid Artillery Duel machine was due in part to the previous sale for a Mermaid gun machine in 2010 as reported here.
This was a single gun machine housed in a mermaid cabinet. There was also a game called Shooting Big Game using a Matthewson Mermaid cabinet, or a cabinet that has been variously described as a fort or castle or lighthouse type. Some had a “fort” type top and some retained the seashell at the top of the cabinet. They may have been Matthewson or Bolland conversions. It may have been that the lighthouse type cabinet was originally designed for locations where the bare breasted mermaid was not deemed suitable, or possibly when the Yacht Race machines were converted to gun games.

Shooting Big Game
Shooting Big Game


Shooting Big Game
Shooting Big Game

Matthewson patented the Yacht Race game mechanism in 1900, patent no. 19,812 and patented the Mermaid cabinet in 1902, design patent no. 399522. The design patent for the lighthouse fort type may exist somewhere around this period but I did not search for it at time. It would probably not be that difficult for someone in the UK to find it now, if such a design patent actually exists, but when I searched for the Matthewson design patent by phone from here at the British Patent Office many years ago it was both difficult and costly for me. Finding Matthewson’s mermaid cabinet design patents did however disprove the tale that these were converted aquariums, a rather unlikely story that Bolland had told Jon Gresham and other collectors and researchers and thus became accepted as fact.

Matthewson Yacht Race Design Patent
Matthewson Yacht Race Design Patent

Matthewson only patented one gun game mechanism, the two player Artillery Duel in 1912 patent no. 8005. This would probably have been when he took all the Yacht Races off location and converted them to gun games. By that time the Mermaid Yacht Race would most likely have already found its way to Australia and remained intact as a Yacht Race game.

I am attaching a photo of The Artillery Duel with a pistol grip as in Matthewson’s mechanism patent and also one with pistol grip type trigger mechanisms with a Bolland Direction plate. Both games have a “fort” type top. I am also attaching two photos of Shooting Big Game machines which is another single gun game that was used in these cabinets. Interestingly, one of them has a “fort” type top whereas the other had a shell type top. These photos came from a friend in the UK who did quite a lot of research on the Matthewson machines many years ago, so I am not sure of all the details of the origin of these photos any more.

The Artillery Duel
The Artillery Duel


Matthewson - Bolland The Artillery Duel
Matthewson - Bolland The Artillery Duel

I’ll also attach a photo of the Artillery Duel sold at auction in 2010 and one sold at an auction by Phillip’s in London 1992 for 13,500 pounds including buyer’s premium etc.

Mermaid Marksman War Game
Mermaid Marksman War Game
Matthewson Mermaid Marksman War Game02.jpg (25.05 KiB) Viewed 3705 times


Artillery Duel in Fort Case
Artillery Duel in Fort Case

Many years ago, I found an identical Mermaid base made of zinc in an antique shop in Sassafras, a country village about an hour’s drive from Melbourne for sale for about $1,000 (500 pounds). This was made of zinc as used in some of the coin of vending machines, like the Leoni French hen and the Bamboula cigar vending machine in the Morphy auction last weekend. This was a common French manufacturing technique that for some reason was not employed in Germany or the UK. The owner of the antique shop was a Belgian who imported most of his stock for the shop in containers from Belgium. The next time I visited the shop the stand was gone, sold to a local lady as a flower stand. Sadly, I never did get a chance to speak to the shop owner to inquire about its origins before the shop disappeared, nor was I able to get a photo of it - just another mystery related to the Matthewson machines.
Last edited by bob on Fri May 20, 2016 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bryans fan
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:15 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: Somerset

Re: Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15

Post by bryans fan »

What a mine of information you are Bob, well done, great post! !WORSHIPFULL!
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by pennymachines »

Thanks Bob for all that great info. I've now stitched a bunch of these Automatic Sports Co. threads together to make them easier to navigate.
User avatar
bryans fan
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:15 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: Somerset

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by bryans fan »

By coincidence I recently obtained this photo.
Attachments
brighton013ORIGINAL-PICTURE-LIFESIZE-AND-COLOUR.jpg
User avatar
john t peterson
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: USA

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by john t peterson »

Bully good information, Bob! Love those photos too. !!CHEERS!!

J Peterson
Short on bull, long on hat in USA
sweetmeats
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:33 am
Reaction score: 5

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by sweetmeats »

Seeing the picture posted by Bryans fan has prompted me to post this article which I had meant to do some time ago. I have been collecting information about these wonderful shooters for nearly twenty years but had never seen any image of a "castle" on site until now. Firstly I will reproduce an article I believe came from a book on Crystal Palace. I only have the article cut out from the publication and cannot remember exactly how I came by it! It reads as follows.
Eric Spottiswoode wrote: I became very interested in mechanical things when I was about seven or eight years of age. My step-grandfather, Ernest Matthewson, took me under his wing and I learned a good deal about the cast-iron machinery that he made. He was a mechanical engineer and designed quite a lot of equipment, including the automatic slot-machines which were installed at the Crystal Palace in the nineteen twenties (and also some were installed at the Palace Pier Brighton).

These machines were quite formidable things, really - they were about eight-foot high, I suppose, and it took a couple of men and a trolley to move them. They were beautifully designed, with cast-iron and brass.

One was a machine called "The Big Game". It had like a revolver which you aimed through this glass partition, and inside there were elephants, tigers and lions and small animals in the trees. If you shot all these down you got your money back.

pic-1a.jpg

I also found I had this picture, possibly also taken on Palace pier Brighton.

My understanding was that Mermaids were converted "on site" by Matthewson to become either Artillery Duels or Marksmen or Big Game Hunters. The patent of 1912 seems an appropriate date as the soldiers used were Brittains English and French. If made much later, I would have imagined German soldiers might have been used, as on the Marksman. Moving on to after the war to 1946, the following hand written accounts I have copies of are reproduced here. I don't know who wrote these, but assume he was interviewing a member of the Bollands' family. There seem to be two separate accounts as follows.

account 1:-
I can tell you all about those iron shooting machines you have. I sold the last two to Mr ? cannot remember his name, Rotunda Amusements, Folkestone in about 1949. These (about 20 altogether) were made in 1914, by Matthewson. He made 3 different shooting machines. These iron cases were not made for Matthewson but for a different purpose. But Matthewson came along and saw the possibility and purchased these heavy iron cases.

(1) Three or four shooters were of birds and animals on trees. You had 5 shots and you had to shoot the animals and birds down for your own coin return if successful.
(2) German soldiers in various positions and you had to shoot these down. 5 shots, 5 German soldier targets. Own coin return if successful.
(3) This machine was for two players. Two pennies in slot 1 returned two guns and you had to shoot down soldiers on either side.

When we purchased this lot of machines they had been in store in a railway arch for years. Matthewson had died years before and left these machines to his (Son or Nephew?) who operated them in various sites and when the sites or machine went out of order they did not have any mechanics, so they collected and stored them. They did not pay any rent. Years later, someone told me about automatic machines stored in a railway arch in Camberwell. I saw them and traced the owner and bought the lot. Had to have a lot of special gunmetal soldiers made, spare parts and curved glass but we sold the whole lot before we started on them. Wonderful money takers.

Shooting Big Game
Shooting Big Game


pic-3a.jpg

Account 2:-
I know all about Matthewson iron shooting machines. I purchased in 1946 the last remains of Matthewsons' machines. I can tell you all about the iron shooting machines. You told me that you purchased two iron shooters from Harrisons of Rotunda Folkestone. Well I am enclosing photos of the very two machines I had rebuilt like new. These were the last two I had. I had about 18 of these. They had been in a store in an old railway arch near Kennington for 28 years and when Mathhewson died, in about 1920, the assets of his estate was left to his Nephew who was not interested in the business.

The machines were in a terrible state. The figures all broken up and the glasses all smashed (children had broken in and smashed them to steal the soldiers). I got to know and, although I did not have the old factory, Gordon Grove and I had them taken to the back of my house in Peckham. I had all new soldiers cast in gunmetal and we made all new striking plates and striking rods for inside the machines. We made all new parts where needed and went to the glass works at Bow East London. Made templates and had all new bent plate glasses made. New instruction plates and had an artist come round and paint all new figures and scenery. We made a top job of these machines. They were all sold before we started work on them for £80 each.

There were three different shooting machines. I had about six Artillery Duel two players, six Shooting Big Games, six Shooting German soldiers - this was the best type. Date. I got my old invoice books out and traced where I sold these machines. Triss Sharp (Speedway Riders Motorcycles). He had two amusement arcades and was so pleased with the money earned that he bought about eight of these machines. This was 1948. Spider Harvey bought all the others, except for the two that I sold to Harrison of Folkestone.


There is no indication of how many mermaids and castles made up the eighteen. Further article "where are they now" to follow.
Attachments
The Artillery Duel
The Artillery Duel
pic-5a.jpg
User avatar
john t peterson
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: USA

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by john t peterson »

Super job, Sweetmeats. Thanks! !!THUMBSX2!!

J Peterson
User avatar
bryans fan
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:15 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: Somerset

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by bryans fan »

A very big thanks to Sweetmeats for sharing this story with us. It is vital that this sort of information is put down on paper so there is a permanent record of the history of these great games. We are all getting older! Once things begin to fall from living memory they are lost. There is so little written information remaining these are nuggets of pure gold. Well done for writing such an interesting account **xXx** !
Keep them coming!
13rebel
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:03 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by 13rebel »

Well done indeed :D
sweetmeats
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:33 am
Reaction score: 5

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by sweetmeats »

Where are they now?

We know from my earlier article that there were 18 shooters found in the 1940s and restored by Bolland. The two sold in auction by Showtime and Morphy were both originally found in Canada by an American dealer (I believe in a café). They were sold to a well known collector for a low price as their value was not realised. This was about 7 or 8 years ago. The Morphy two player machine was then sold privately for a rumoured $250,000 before the Showtime auction. I assume these have remained in America, but do not know for sure. Next there were two machines owned by Jasper and were in his study at his mansion near Chicago either side of the fireplace in his study. These were viewable to visitors invited when the Chicago show was on. About ten years ago, I heard that they may be for sale and would I be interested in one (YES!). The price was $50,000 each, then the situation changed to being $100,000 each, then not for sale. They were subsequently sold several years apart to a collector on the West Coast.

Pictures of these, see below:

The Marksman in Mermaid Case
The Marksman in Mermaid Case


Marksman Close Up
Marksman Close Up

The painting is not really to the English taste, but of the highest quality. I have seen one of them personally - the Big Game:

Shooting Big Game in Mermaid Case
Shooting Big Game in Mermaid Case


Shooting Big Game Close Up
Shooting Big Game Close Up

The two player game pictured in silver was in the John Gresham collection in Pocklington. This was when I visited about 15 years ago. It was bought I was told for £100!! This is now with the same collector who has the set.

Artillery Duel in Castle Case
Artillery Duel in Castle Case

This means that there are five in the States that I know of. The home side are just in the lead with five and a half! Firstly the half: this is a mech. This was the result of the case being smashed as it was considered too heavy to be moved from a basement, and the mech saved for scrap brass. I met the man responsible and have seen the mech.

Next the Marksman mermaid that used to be at Ocean village in Southampton and playable for 10p. This was originally found by Joe Pettit and purchased from a retired operator for £100:

The Marksman in Mermaid Case
The Marksman in Mermaid Case


Next there are two machines still with the same family who have owned them over fifty years and refused all offers over the years to sell them (including from me). The Big Game picture posted by Bob is one of them. The two player castle pictures now added:

Artillery Duel & Shooting Big Game in Castle Cases
Artillery Duel & Shooting Big Game in Castle Cases


Shooting Big Game in Castle Case
Shooting Big Game in Castle Case

The Christies castle was bought by me in 2000 when the Haskell/Costa collection was sold:

Artillery Duel in Castle Case
Artillery Duel in Castle Case



There is one other two player mermaid owned by an English collector. I have seen a photo only. So of the 18, we can account for six two-player games, three Marksmen and only two Big Game. Of these, only three are castles. There are still seven out there to find. Does any one know of any others?
User avatar
bryans fan
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:15 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: Somerset

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by bryans fan »

Another fascinating post. Great work Sweetmeats -/00\- !SHERLOCK!
Thanks for sharing.
User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 21
Location: perth, australia

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by gameswat »

The Marksman shown above now in the USA with gloriously embellished paintwork is in fact truly of the "English taste" - since that's where it was done! The scan comes from the Jan 1978 Vol 2 No 1 issue of the English magazine "Pinball Player & Penny Slot Collector". There was a Christmas Party held by the magazine in Dec 1977 with a Concours d'Elegance. The plaque received for the above Marksman is still attached to the back of the machine! I've also seen the matching Big Game in person and they did look like they came from the same artist. Possibly both owned by Les Hinsley in the 70's? Or else Jasper may have paid one of his artists to match the paintwork if his Big Game came from somewhere else?
Attachments
mermaid gun.jpg
User avatar
treefrog
Posts: 4813
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:46 pm
Reaction score: 31
Location: Suffolk

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by treefrog »

Some of you guys are in another league when it comes to collecting, I would fear having a machine like this kicking around my house, especially when worth way more than the value of my house...

Shame all these machines are not displayed for public consumption, but that is the way it goes I guess..
sweetmeats
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:33 am
Reaction score: 5

Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Post by sweetmeats »

Thanks gameswat for the information on the painting, still think quality of painting is great and as now know done in England even better however will be leaving mine red!
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests