EH / Collector Connector sales

raj · Post by **raj** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:04 pm

Without wishing to cast any doubt about the validity of the SH auction, as I was not in attendance, there are many ways to rig either an ebay sale or a live auction to suck in a genuine bidder to pay over the odds. Shill bidding is one way, in which the owner bids against their own item to raise the price to its reserve. Often, once a second real bidder comes in, the shill bidder will withdraw the bid either during or after the auction, leaving a 'Second Chance' option available to the unsuspecting punter. Ebay are very quick to spot this & WILL jump on you & possibly prosecute people involved.

Look for bidding history & see what % has gone against the seller, it may be a clue.

An old trick is to use a fuzzy photo of something deliberately to disguise flaws, e.g. shot chrome, or manipulate the picture to make sure flaws are hidden, for example the fact there are only 3 symbols on 3 reels, the rest being missing or damaged. Using pictures of a similar but better item, or library picture to get a sale is quite common, as is adding disclaimers to descriptions half way through an auction, e.g. spares only.

The usual 'selling for a friend' found in granddad's loft, 'I don't know much about these' etc. should be well known by now.

Another method is at a live auction, when the auctioneer will bid 'against the chandelier', in other words, a non existent person, or a plant in the audience, again to suck in a new bidder, who will 'win' the item at an inflated price.

As for items sold on ebay, it is very easy for an item to appear to be sold for any amount of money, 100s or 1000s more than the real value by using a couple of ebay IDs not obviously connected. After the sale has completed, the buyer then raises an online dispute with the seller, and they agree to cancel the sale. It only costs the entry fee, all commission is returned and there is now a history of a 'rare' machine being sold for an untrue price. The same happened during the '80s with classic cars, when bent auctioneers actually created a completely hyped market for old cars, which then gained a life of its own, making the early punters very rich. Obviously, the market eventually crashed, leaving buyers with cars they could never get a decent price for.

I'm not sure about the legality of not declaring an item has not reached reserve, but normally the auctioneer will say something to the effect of 'sorry', or be more specific, 'see us after the auction'. To state something is sold when it is not is underhand if nothing else.
Anyway, I hope I have not given anyone ideas, but in a small forum like this, word soon gets around who are the good guys & who aren't.

badpenny · Post by **badpenny** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:21 pm

Two little ploys I have witnessed in the past which have amused me at live auctions are.......
1) Opening with a low start and when half a dozen hands go up the auctioneer levels a rapid £20 increase on each one. This means the bloke at the end of the line with his mouth agape with surprise raised his hand for the opening bid of £50 and discovers he has just been taken for £120 ........... nice

2) Dropping the hammer and then immediately re-opening the bidding because a hand went up late. Woo Hoo !!!RANT!!

Oh yes we've seen it all.

Mistakes happen, but one auctioneer in particular was very fond of the above two, within minutes of each other

JC · Post by JC » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Is she still doing it, do you know?

badpenny · Post by **badpenny** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:10 pm

Can't say, as I've not frequented that auction.

I prefer warm venues with toilets, food and drinks available and a free car park just outside the door.

treefrog · Post by **treefrog** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:09 pm

No news as to whether these auctions can keep up once every quarter as the website has not posted any lots yet for Sept 4th, when the previous auctions were online more the two weeks prior to the auction.

The first auction there were definately some bargains, less the case second time round. One bandit I regretted not bidding on at the time was a Mills Castle Front, including commision sold for £462, last week it sold on enay for £822

There some was something not quite right and I cannot remember what it was, certainly the escalator had been chopped.....anyway someone got a killing..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110730270700? ... 1423.l2648

treefrog · Post by **treefrog** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:24 pm

Interesting, after posting yesterday's comments about the Elephant house auction, the website had been updated and it is cancelled... looking forward to Coventry.

christopheb · Post by **christopheb** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:48 am

tree-frog wrote:Mills Castle Front (...) There some was something not quite right and I cannot remember what it was, certainly the escalator had been chopped...

FYI : also, the Castle Front was missing the jackpot mechanism. The description did not mention anything about this, but I noticed on the pictures that the jackpot window had been painted over, so I asked the seller, and he kindly confirmed.

I really wish I did live in the UK and was able to attend one of these auctions !... Eday is fun, but nothing like the real thing ! (and the prices !!!).

coin-op · Post by **coin-op** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:39 pm

ChristopheB wrote: FYI : also, the Castle Front was missing the jackpot mechanism. The description did not mention anything about this, but I noticed on the pictures that the jackpot window had been painted over, so I asked the seller, and he kindly confirmed.

I think that with Mills old penny bandits in the UK, the jackpots are generally missing...but people, correct me if I'm wrong!

christopheb · Post by **christopheb** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:01 am

Yes, I think I read that somewhere else in this forum too. Was that not due to some law/regulation about the maximum amount which a machine was allowed to pay out ?

That's sad, because a bandit without its original jackpot is... well... It makes this beautiful machine somewhat less desirable (to me, at least)...

treefrog · Post by **treefrog** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:39 pm

It's not difficult finding jackpots, the issue is getting one that will handle large old pennies. Not seen one on a British conversion of these older Mills machines. Also as stated the reason they were converted was the legal gaing requirement, so the jackpot would have affected this. I do have a old Jennings Peacock on 1D with fully working jackpot. What is interesting with Jennings machines, the British variants often have coloured number reels instead of fruits, I have never understood this, anyone know the reason?

badpenny · Post by **badpenny** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:40 pm

I understood the fruits idea was an American thing, originating from getting around gambling laws by claiming to vend chewing gum. Though I'm probably wrong I'm very gullible and believe most things said to me; I simply shouldn't be listened to.

pennymachines · Post by **pennymachines** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:26 pm

tree-frog wrote:What is interesting with Jennings machines, the British variants often have coloured number reels instead of fruits, I have never understood this, anyone know the reason?

As BP says, fruit symbols were partly to blur the gambling purpose of the games. Combined with mint vendors, either built-in or affixed to the side, they appeared to advertise the flavours available for "purchase". Before long the ruse backfired and the symbols became so indelibly associated with the genre, "Fruit Machine" became the generic term for a coin-operated gambling device in the UK. So the next step was to remove the fruit symbols and replace them with the less inflammatory numbers.

There are a few early Mills bandits with old penny escalators and jackpots. Some of these would have been built for the American half dollar (50c) coin, which is almost identical to our old penny.

coppinpr · Post by **coppinpr** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:12 pm

The fruit symbols were certainly linked to the 'gum balls' vended in machines to fudge the betting laws and the actual fruits used are interesting in that they do reflect the flavors available at the time: Cherry, Plum, Orange, were the most common flavors (Cherry the most popular flavor sold, I guess that's why it's the most common winner on the machines). Grape was not an uncommon symbol (but seems to be now) but Apple was rare and usually only on German machines. Lemon is the most interesting. True lemon flavored sweets were rare because in the early 20th century, sweet was the order of the day, not sour and almost always lemons on a fruit machine are a loser. This is the source of the mostly American term ' buying a lemon' usually referring to a second hand car that is no good. Many years ago, I was told by an American arcade owner (but don't know if it's true) that 'Bars' and 'Bell Fruit' symbols represent the popular mixed fruit flavors of gum and pay the high payouts as a mix of all the flavors. The Bell, of course, had trade mark connections as well.

One strange thing is that in the early days Europe went for the numbers and the USA for the fruits, yet we always called the machines 'fruit machines' (and still do) yet in America they were always 'Slot machines' and still are.

cadillac55uk · Post by **cadillac55uk** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:50 am

Did anyone else that attended the latest Elephant House Auction get the impression that some of the lots were being 'bumped up'?

or was it just me being cynical?

treefrog · Post by **treefrog** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:46 am

Did anyone get the prices realised... I drove 5 miles down the road and turned back, as had a last minute change of heart... Based on your feedback, I assume prices were high.

bryans fan · Post by **bryans fan** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:31 pm

I expect the results will appear in the Arena in due course along with the Coventry auction.
Having had a great weekend the previous week, and based on the fact there were so many non slot, off topic lots, I too decided not to go. The hammer prices reflect what reserves the seller sets, and often lots go unsold if unrealistically high reserves are set. You pays your money and you takes your choice.