What's My Line, more than I can chew, I think

[widget2k4]

Just got this winter project but starting to think I have taken on more than I can chew.
I could do with some help if possible. I don't know whether to concentrate on repairing the mechanical parts first, or trying to go about getting a back flash organized?
There is no door, no case, and hardly anything moving mechanically, lots of rot in the metal.
I can't help but think the backflash is going to be the biggest problem, so if anyone can help with a good high quality image to work with in Photoshop it would be much appreciated.

[raj]

My view is that it is too far gone to effectively re-manufacture as a R&W giant allwin, as it will have so many replacement parts. The size of the flash makes it difficult to scan and print. How about using self adhesive vinyl to make a Bryans type of flash, stuck between two sheets of plastic to make your own? Other than that, wait until another scrapper come up, as they do occasionally and rebuild from that one.

[aristomatic]

Looks like may be more winter spring and summer project.
Anyway, whatever you decide, good luck with the efforts. All I know is that you get the best pleasure out of the more difficult jobs. I have taken on some projects and people don't believe the finished product, although by default some of these more difficult jobs can, as Raj says, make the finished product, more new and less original.

If it was mine, I think I would be tempted to disassemble and free up and clean and lube all parts and then leave for a while. Then again, as Raj says, give some time for a donor case to turn up or another giant allwin donor machine in poor condition and make one good original out of two, and make another with a majority of new parts. By your other work you are fairly sure to make a good job whatever.

Share the before and after pix.

GP

[widget2k4]

I'm already into it lol
The backflash is worrying me though. Where the hell am I going to get one of them? I have a Fill Em Up but I really didn't want to copy that - I wanted to collect all of them.

[andy g]

Hi
This is not the backflash you are looking for but it is from a giant R & W allwin.
Might be of use to you: Ruffler & Walker Many Happy Returns backflash

Andy G

[widget2k4]

wow Andy that would have been perfect if it had been the right one, but i suppose if the right one cant be found i can just use that one, will save letting a machine go to waste.
thank you

[raj]

Well, this one is a no-brainer Widge, these are not rare machines, so, unless another helpful member has your backflash, rebuild using this one & wait for the right machine. I've had all of them over the years, including the Win a Cig, so bide your time.

[john t peterson]

Widget2k4,

Not the best picture but better than nothing. If you need a clearer shot, let me know and I'll see if I can dig it out of the warehouse.

J Peterson

[widget2k4]

Thanks mate, however I have just bought a complete one with mint flash so I will strip it and copy that one.
Bit of a nightmare to strip down like.

[pennymachines]

When asked to advise buyers of these multi-ball allwins, I always say, "make sure the mechanism is clean and un-corroded". Compared to most allwins they're complex with many trips which are tilted by the weak force of ball bearings falling against them. The payout mechanism is also unique, and the working metal surfaces need to be very smooth. Having said that, if you're able to rescue one from such awful condition, so much the better. After all, this fellow built one from scratch.

[widget2k4]

finally got there in the end, phew. these are one complicated mech to work on.
new door and cabinet made from oak, new backflash etc.
looking good and working mint

[badpenny]

Well done they are a bit of a brute aren't they?
They must have been expensive to make, and from what I've heard not very popular with operator.
Probably overly complicated for your average hanky wearing holiday maker.

[treefrog]

Widget, having seen many people's work on here over the years, from the pictures you have posted over the recent months you do seem to make a masterful job of these restorations, I would put you up there with Gamewat....very good......mind you I would never be able to afford your machines you sell

[raj]

As it happens, I finished one just this weekend. A big heavy brute and a pig to work on. This one had the end 2 ball pins removed, so I had to make replacements out of long part threaded coach bolts bolted through the chassis and cut to length. The only problem was that the chassis has to be dismantled to get behind the mounting plate to fit a lock nut, and all the rods, plates and split pins removed and then reassembled. There is an absolutely brilliant video about the operation of these giant allwins somewhere on the forum, but for the life of me, I can't find it again!, complete with schematics and animated type drawings.
Anyway, here she is...

[aristomatic]

Both look great machines.

GP

[raj]

I've just remembered, the original balls measured 14mm and had been in the machine a very long time, however they were too small to always tip into the payout hole. I replaced with 9/16th and everything works fine. I can't quite understand how it could have worked for 50 years. Could the balls have worn down from their original size?

[widget2k4]

Widget, having seen many people's work on here over the years, from the pictures you have posted over the recent months you do seem to make a masterful job of these restorations, I would put you up there with Gamewat....very good......mind you I would never be able to afford your machines you sell

thanks treefrog, i do try and make a half decent job of them
i always try and sell them high at first but they slowly come down, trouble is you just dont seem to get any money for the time and effort you put into restoring them there is a hell of a lot of man hours to get them into good shape sometimes and this never seems to be taken into account.

[widget2k4]

yours looks very nice as well raj
mine had the end things missing also, but mine had all been moved down a hole as well (very sneaky) so would take an extra ball to make the win, but considering i had every damn nut n bolt off it i put them all back to original positions, stripping it and rebuilding it wasnt really a hard job but trying to set it up to work right....well thats a whole different story but got there eventually.

[pennymachines]

Must say, you both deserve top marks.

trouble is you just don't seem to get any money for the time and effort you put into restoring them There is a hell of a lot of man hours to get them into good shape sometimes and this never seems to be taken into account.

That's very true, I'm afraid. Until you've had a go, it's impossible to appreciate the painstaking effort required to do a decent, no-bodges restoration.
Anyway, the speed and quality of your work on that wreck is quite astounding. And Raj has to be congratulated for replacing those missing ball stops. Not a job for the faint-hearted.
I really like these games and think they're sometimes rather overlooked. If I'd encountered them as a kid, I would have loved them, but wouldn't have been impressed by those mean operators who saw fit to open the end columns!

JC touched on the 14mm v 9/16" R&W question in this thread. We should get together and start comparing balls.

[youtube]C27vYz-wwI4[/youtube]

[widget2k4]

Mine never came with any balls but I bought 14mm ones and up to now not had any problems with it.