How many cherries?

[brigham]

I don't remember cherries on the third reel until the electro-era. They still look wrong to me.
The single-cherry payout is usually ascribed to the Mills Chrome Bell, of January 1939, at least according to the advertising blurb of the day. This is the machine which the 'jobbers' came to call the 'diamond front', but it IS a genuine Mills product, not an 'after-market' conversion. It WAS the machine which set Pat Buckley on his journey from repairer to maker, though.
The difference in the mech. is simply the length of the payout finger. If you shorten it (or otherwise bend the vertical lever) so that the 'notch' comes into play between the first two payout discs, rather than the second and third, it will pay for single cherry/two cherries, rather than two cherries/two cherries and bell or lemon.
ALL the Mills mechanisms I have seen have been punched for bell and lemon in the cherry position on the third disc, even the ones on 'single cherry' pay; so I conclude that the 'old' payout remained an option.
Can anyone look inside a genuine late Hi-Top, to confirm if, or not, the third disc is still so punched?

[quadibloc]

I don't remember cherries on the third reel until the electro-era. They still look wrong to me.The single-cherry payout is usually ascribed to the Mills Chrome Bell, of January 1939, at least according to the advertising blurb of the day.

I have seen, on page 160 of Lemons, Cherries, and Bell-Fruit Gum, what appears to be an advertisement for the original Mills Chrome Bell from 1939, showing single-cherry pay in the photo, but the illustration doesn't ambiguously show that it's something from Mills.
And Automatic Age seems to have mostly dropped slot machine ads by 1939. However, if the Mills Chrome Bell is from January 1939 and not late 1939, then I may have been looking in the wrong place - both in Automatic Age and in Billboard, so maybe there's a chance that I can positively verify this.

I have now sorted things out. There is a nice splashy ad, even with color, by Mills, in Automatic Age magazine, for the Chrome Bell, showing that it has single-cherry pay... in the October 1940 issue!
The Chrome Bell indeed existed in 1939, since there was a news item in the May 27, 1939 issue of Billboard that was about it - however, the scan of the page I found was not clear enough for me to draw any conclusions about its payout.
But that does definitely establish that Mills did originate single-cherry pay, and it existed before the post-war era.

[badpenny]

Interesting research there gents.
Thank you both.
I wonder if we can find evidence for War Eagles and Castle Fronts as well?

BP

[coppinpr]

attached is the official company flyer that went out to customer announcing the new 1 cherry payout in 1939

and just in case someone asks "how many melons" below is the not so politically correct flyer that introduced the new "melon" symbol two years earlier in 1937, at that time only used as a new Jackpot line

[badpenny]

That looks hopeful Paul, I'll read it when I get back from the boat, thanks.

BP

[brigham]

So the Melon as a symbol pre-dates the Hi-Top Melon Belly.
I didn't know that. My fault for making assumptions.

[coppinpr]

The melon was introduced in 1937 for this rather odd machine the "Melon Bell" which to all intents and purposes is a "Bursting cherry"...with out the cherry!
The company had high hopes for this machine but it seems to have actually been a flop for it came out later in the same year as the bursting cherry but retained the melon jackpot payout but with a smaller payout . The problem with the original seems to have been the jackpot,the double window jackpot contained a massive $10 in coins BUT it was was hand filled AND attendant paid, on winning the jackpot the player had to ask the attendant to unlock the jackpot which then gushed out into the payout tray,the company thought this would be a big selling point..it was not. The jackpot had then to be hand loaded with $10 of coins and an internal meter recorded the payout.
One interesting fact is the colour,the one in the photo is the original colour, Mills paid for research done by a "famous psychologist" (?) into men's favorite colour,they were told violet (??) so they made it in violet...Im guessing they got it wrong again The case design was made to look like a bursting melon!! unfortunally this was not obvious to customers so on the flyer they added an arrow pointing to the window saying "This is a melon"
The bursting cherry was revamped in 1939 as the "Brown front" but the melons were dropped for this model

melon bell 2.jpg (28.95 KiB) Viewed 3429 times

[coppinpr]

Examining the list of reel strips used by mills in the 30's it appears the "castle front" and the "War eagle" never had 1 cherry payouts, the only machines that did were
Chrome Bell
Golden Falls (late models only)
Black Cherry (almost all of these had single cherry payouts but min double cherry was available( this is the machine that Pat Buckley based his designs on))

[quadibloc]

I knew about the pre-war Melon Bell, although I never saw that incorrect flyer! That at least settles that it is the watermelon it looks like, rather than a true melon like a Honeydew. Or are watermelons really melons? Looks like a trip to Wikipedia is in order to sort out this botanical mystery!

Both watermelons and canteloupes are true melons, belonging to the same genus Cucurbitae as pumpkins, squash, and gourds as well.

[badpenny]

Thanks everyone for your input, especially Paul.

I think we now have enough evidence to ascertain that single cherry pay out on Mills machines didn't appear pre WWII.
Also it rules out War Eagles and Castle Fronts.
Such a machine sporting single cherry awards seems to point to: -
Faulty machines altered during their operating life in order to get them back out and earning, without attention being paid to authenticity. Someone suggested to me a while back that operators post war may have uprated their pre war machines to single cherry pay out. I can't imagine a profit driven operator spending time and money altering a machine so it would pay out additional combinations.

Sadly a more obvious reason for there being so many pre war Mills slots displaying single cherry awards indicates skulduggery and rip offs. Especially once collectors appeared on the scene.

BP
PS Well I'm off now to collect my brand new Triumph Herald 3.5 ltr articulated Combine Harvester that I was so lucky to find.

[brigham]

"...But that does definitely establish that Mills did originate single-cherry pay, and it existed before the post-war era..."
I'm satisfied that it dates from 1939, a conclusion that I have drawn from contemporary advertising.

[treefrog]

Jennings had single cherry in late thirties......

Any BP back to why you raised this in the first place, there are so many other things to identify fake war eagles and the one cherry or two cherry is not a guaranteed method. It is not that tough to change to a two cherry if so committed

[badpenny]

Come on then TF share with us please.

[treefrog]

Share what how to convert or what Jennings......I think you know the first being a technical the wizard of our era in the art the slot machine , but I have seen the Jennings Super Chief offered as an option single cherry payout from 1939.......this became available on other chiefs after this.

One of the last repro war eagles we discussed on the forum had two cherry payout......
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7352&p=53995&hilit=War+eagle#p53995

[quadibloc]

I think we now have enough evidence to ascertain that single cherry pay out on Mills machines didn't appear pre WWII.

Huh? I thought this thread contained proof that, contrary to what I had thought, single cherry payout did originate in 1939, shortly before World War II started.

Also it rules out War Eagles and Castle Fronts.

Now this is true. The Chrome Bell was among Mills' last pre-war machines, and the War Eagle was among the first Silent Bells from 1931, so single cherry payout wasn't around back that far.

I can't imagine a profit driven operator spending time and money altering a machine so it would pay out additional combinations.

Ouch!

I certainly agree that a profit-driven operator would never alter a machine to pay out additional combinations... without also altering the reel strips and payout discs to ensure it remained profitable afterwards.

But from my reading of advertisements for reconditioned second-hand slots, altering machines to have currently fashionable payouts - no lemons on the first reel, single-cherry payout, triple-cherry payout and no lemons anywhere, mystery pay, criss-cross or tic-tac-toe style - was not only possible, but even common.

The War Eagle in Dieter Ladwig's book Slot Machines (on page 48) has a payout card which resembles the original payout cards for that machine in style, but which indicates a single-cherry payout. A fanciful but misguided collector, or a post-war alteration during the machine's service life? I'd be hesitant to say.

[brigham]

I'd be hesitant to say...
...or buy.

[quadibloc]

Jennings had single cherry in late thirties......

Although Jennings appears to be the first to switch from lemons on the third reel to cherries on the third reel, in making an extensive search of Billboard and Automatic Age to learn about the evolution of slot machine payouts, I've seen no evidence whatever of single-cherry pay by Jennings (or Pace or Watling, for that matter) until the cessation of hostilities for World War II.
So if you are right, there is something I can learn from you. What Jennings machine had it?

[treefrog]

Jennings had single cherry in late thirties......

Although Jennings appears to be the first to switch from lemons on the third reel to cherries on the third reel, in making an extensive search of Billboard and Automatic Age to learn about the evolution of slot machine payouts, I've seen no evidence whatever of single-cherry pay by Jennings (or Pace or Watling, for that matter) until the cessation of hostilities for World War II.
So if you are right, there is something I can learn from you. What Jennings machine had it?

Machine mentioned above was offered from around August 1939, so pre war.....

[quadibloc]

It is true that the Jennings Super Chief dates from 1939. I could only find three surviving examples pictured on the Internet, all had double-cherry payout.
It is true that single-cherry pay was offered on Jennings post-war machines. The first three of them were the Bronze Chief, the Super Deluxe Club Chief, and the Standard Chief. Are you sure you aren't confusing the Super Chief with the Super Deluxe Club Chief?
So far, I have been unable to even find an advertisement for the Jennings Super Chief.

Looking a little harder, I have found it advertised in Billboard. And I'd seen the advertisements before. Mostly, they talked about the machine's new, improved slug rejector. (It didn't have a visible escalator; this was added in a later model, so the slug rejector must not have been perfect.)

But on page 87 of the June 3, 1939 Billboard, there was a big ad for the Jennings Super Chief. And that proves you're right. The last paragraph of the ad copy is: "May be equipped with special 1 cherry on first reel payout combination or any other popular combination desired."

This wording and placement suggests to me that Mills was still first - but Jennings, at least, started imitating the popular one-cherry payout before the War, even if Watling and Pace apparently didn't.

[treefrog]

Posting the below as referenced in Peter Bach’s book called Collectors Treasury of Antique Slot Machines from Contemporary Advertising. A wonderful reference book with almost 500 pages of machines in chronological order, produced 40 years ago. One of the few books I often reference and recommended if you don’t already have.

This machine is covered by about 4 adverts over 1939, starting in July. Not a common machine I guess.