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geofflove
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby geofflove » Sun May 03, 2020 8:50 pm

Thanks Chris. That’s great to know. Do you know why it is that many pics of Duetts appear to show an additional motor and cams on the back? Is this a different version of the same model or something else? See example attached. Which is the payout motor on my version?
I don't suppose anyone knows of a service manual for this or similar models anywhere? Thanks
61765395-9A4E-40C0-8BF0-BEB680DB403D.jpeg

jackie3896
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby jackie3896 » Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 pm

Hi, I’m not certain, but there were lots of different types. Duett, Luxus, Super, Rex and others too. They had different payouts, so maybe the extra cams and switches were on different machines, but yours does look complete to me.

There is only one motor. It turns the cams at the top which activate the switches. The payout cams are top left in the photo.

I did post a schematic and timing diagram for a Luxus which you should be able to find in resources (I think). It’s not too different from a Duett as far as I know.

Chris

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pennymachines
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby pennymachines » Mon May 04, 2020 10:51 pm

And there's a link to the Duett wiring diagram on the first page of this topic.

geofflove
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby geofflove » Tue May 05, 2020 3:39 pm

Thanks. I was slightly confused as I’d seen one ‘Duett’ wiring diagram which showed two motors and another which showed one and stated it as the circuit for a ‘Duette E’.
Frustratingly, the first pic had the name torn from it, so although it was accompanied with the relay connection sheet which stated ‘Duett’, it is possible it’s been wrongly attributed to a Duett. Anyone any idea which model had the second motor?

8E827AF7-6168-4E56-8B64-7BB0150E592C.jpeg
Edit - I think I have answered my own question. The additional motor appears to belong to a Duett ‘Jackpot’ machine. See circuit. Not sure what the difference in play was but guess that explains my confusion!

jackie3896
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby jackie3896 » Tue May 05, 2020 8:14 pm

Hi,

They had different payout amounts. Some only 4 amounts (2,4,8 and 10 times) and some a lot more. I guess the ones with a larger number of amounts had to have the extra motor.

If you look at the schematic in the back of your machine and compare it to the Duett schematic previously listed in this post you will see they are slightly different.

Chris.

geofflove
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby geofflove » Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am

That explains. Yes it was the schematics that led me to the conclusion there were different variants of the duett. From just looking at the back views of the machines I'd initially assumed they were from completely different models. Thanks for the help. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I take delivery of it - hopefully within the week!

geofflove
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby geofflove » Sat May 09, 2020 6:36 pm

So - today I took delivery of my first project - the Duett. I'm suspecting not the simplest of first projects so here we go - hopefully some of you wonderful people with a bit more experience will know a few things....!
It's not the tidiest of machines but appears to be mostly there. Hardly any bulbs left in it, so I need to order a few of those! On delivery, none of the wheels were turning, although the motor was. All the brakes were stuck on. After discovering how the brakes actually worked, I discovered that the brake pins were not engaged with the 'lifters'. After that, the middle wheel still wasn't turning. I think it was a combination of slipping too much and also rubbing against the wiring harness. Removed cleaned and added a spacer behind the middle wheel to the rear of an axle to bring it forward a few mm and also tightened the spring on the shaft, and now they are all turning!

It now runs (all the time!) and the outer two wheels periodically stop and start. I now need to do some more detailed troubleshooting. All the relay contracts etc. look OK and appear to be making and breaking correctly, although I haven't tested them all with the meter. In order to do this I need to know what's what however.

This is the circuit in the box -

Circuita.jpg
It shows a separate 'payout motor', although I can't find this on the machine! However, nothing appears to be obviously missing - any clues?
Here's a view of the back.

labelleda.jpg
The coin area seems to be a bit of a mess and I'll need to take this off top clean it, but it would help to have a simple description of how it's meant to operate. I note there is a micro switch with a long lever on it - I assume this is triggered by the falling coin somehow. The is also a much larger set of contacts (marked 1). These are the ones I'm having to close manually to get the machine to operate currently. I can see there is a mechanism linked to the motor which I've currently got disconnected. If anyone can describe the sequence of how this is meant to work it would be very helpful.

I suspect someone way have done something weird with the payout too. It seems (although I could be wrong) that an additional solenoid and tube have been bolted to the outside of the existing unit. This solenoid is only currently wired by one wire and I can't see how the coins get into this new tube (although there was a 3 inch length of coin chute in the bottom of the box). All very odd. The original coin tube and solenoid is still there behind this 'new bit'. Is it really meant to be there? If not I'll remove it!

coinsa.jpg
So before I get my meter out and start tracing voltages and switches, can anyone tell me which relay number 3 on the pic is? I've not seen this operate yet and am not sure which it is on the diagram. And what does cam 4 on the motor do? It turns continuously at a reasonable speed, constantly actuating the switches linked to it. Which on the circuit is it and what does it do?

OK, that's it for now! If I manage to get a few answers it will enable me to troubleshoot a little further and I'll keep you updated with progress. I've not ventured to the brake switches at the bottom and their associated ingenious mechanisms! My plan is firstly to get the wheels spinning and stopping in the appropriate sequence (so far the middle wheel only operates if you manually press the solenoid on the back to release the brake). After that, I'll move on to the payout and finally the manual switches.

I'd LOVE to hear from the experts! Thanks

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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby badpenny » Sat May 09, 2020 8:55 pm

In the absence of the expert you're searching for, I'm prepared to stand in a bucket of water, and stab the electrics while offering my befuddled memories of these sadistic cherubs.

If you're having trouble with the brakes coming on or releasing I suggest you first check how free the three brake pin/solenoids are, They need to be very easy to move.
If they're fine check the gaps and cleanliness of the contacts on the bank of switches top left of mechanism. Look for the three that kick out of play one after the other before it starts hunting for a winning combination.

Switch one starts the game, the coin sits on the switch closing it, the cams at the top turn and close another switch which keeps the game running. There's a lever which moves in and ejects the coin from the gate.
No.2 is the pay out tube and at the bottom, the solenoid that punches the coins out. The tube is missing a length it should reach up to the ramp above.
No.3 Might be the relay that lifts all three brake pins clear of the wheels at the beginning of the game.
No.4 I forget, the wheel spins hitting the bank of reed switches below so they open and close. I think it might be giving a random element to the stop switches on the front (turning them on and off) to restrict the control the player has over the skill buttons to each reel.

That's about all I can offer in suggestions, apart from "beware of advice freely given by others, you should ask yourself why they are prepared to rid themselves of it"

BP !SCARED!

geofflove
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby geofflove » Sun May 10, 2020 7:32 am

Thanks for the help. The brake pins are definitely OK as manually lifting them works fine. I will start checking the switches next. A quick continuity test on the coin micro switch suggests it might not be operational, but bypassing it doesn’t work either, so that’s another area to sort.
The randomiser idea makes sense.
In terms of the coin pay I don’t understand why there are two solenoids and two tubes. They don’t seem to appear on the schematic and I still can’t locate the payout motor mentioned, so suspect the machine may have been altered at some point, meaning the diagram may only be helpful so far.....
This is another view of the extra coin pay showing what I think is the original tube and solenoid behind and the ‘new?’ part and solenoid on top.

41B4F14B-C0B0-4B31-A20F-6757DDC4D4A3a.jpg
Thanks again. Will update once I get a bit further.

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badpenny
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Re: Rotamint Duett

Postby badpenny » Sun May 10, 2020 12:30 pm

You're right, the set up hidden behind is the original pay out, the other has been added on.
There is no pay out motor, it's all done with solenoids, smoke, mirrors and not insignificant danger.

I've never seen a twin pay out rig before, but then again I've never seen the Eiffel Tower.
I imagine the one that isn't original may be for a token or special award, and is hand filled. Is there anything mentioned on the front about such wins?

BP |/XX\|


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