Operator dilemma: old Pennies or Tokens?

[pauljt71]

Hi folks,

I am looking into the feasibility of having play tokens the size of old one pennies made for my machines.

Has anyone here ever had any made or know a company that would be able to make me? Any information greatly appreciated thanks.

[grains]

Eurocoin make generic tokens 29mm diameter might be worth checking if these would be suitable.
https://eurocoin.co.uk/product/29mm-eag ... don-token/
Cheers

[pennymachines]

The arcade at Carter's Steam Fair used rather cheap-looking penny-sized tokens for a while.

Their ride tokens look much nicer.

HOW ARE THEY MADE?
The first set of tokens were from Hoffman mint in America. The second lot we went to our token vending machine company (Suzo Happ) and then they got them made in Europe. We have bought a few hundred thousand tokens over the years to keep it all moving. They are made of 63% copper and 37% zinc.
The machines run with old pennies – it costs 1 token for 1 old penny, or 4 tokens for 8 old pennies.

[coppinpr]

I have a about a hundred 1d tokens that were made for Carters so they are available somewhere

ops! Mr P posted at the same time

[pauljt71]

Thanks folks, this gives me a good start.

[brigham]

..."The machines run with old pennies – it costs 1 token for 1 old penny, or 4 tokens for 8 old pennies..."
If the tokens aren't used in the machines, then what exactly is the point?

[malcymal]

Wasn't it the case that some operators issued tokens from behind the bar and asked the player what value they wanted to play at then trade back winnings at the value staked? So play at 1d, 6d a shilling?!?!

[pennymachines]

If the tokens aren't used in the machines, then what exactly is the point?

They're for the rides. I'm guessing they're old-penny size, in which case they could also be used directly in the arcade.

WHY DO WE USE RIDE TOKENS AT THE FAIR?
In 2014 we made the decision to switch from cash to tokens. We wanted to make things quick and easy for both our staff and customers and also wanted to keep a bit of ‘Carters magic’ too. If Disney can have their own dollars then we thought we could have our own currency too!

Using tokens instead of cash means that you don’t have to fumble around for the right change and our staff work more efficiently and make sure ride queues are kept to a minimum and you have a better experience. Our fair is very popular with teenagers who are given the freedom to come to the fair on their own – parents can book online and their teens can collect the tokens at the fair.
We open late into the night at many of our locations and it’s much safer for a ride operator to have a bag of ride tokens on him than storing cash from customers.
Each of the rides are 4, 5 or 6 ride tokens per person which is straightforward and quick to count out – something young children can do themselves, even if they are not yet old enough to recognise all our British coins.

[badpenny]

Not forgetting that using tokens/tickets on rides stops the "Gaff Lads" pocketing or short changing.
BP

I am looking into the feasibility of having play tokens the size of old one pennies made for my machines.

I think you're adding a cost as well as removing the quirky attraction of handling the old money. Also the chances of punters walking off with new shiny souvenirs of their visit are much higher than old pennies.
Just saying.

BP

[pauljt71]

I think you are right BP. As long as I can keep a good supply of old pennies coming hopefully all will be well.

[pennymachines]

I can see the logic of exploring the token option. Inevitably, old pennies are not as plentiful as they were. Many were lost to China's manufacturing boom. If suitable tokens are cheaper it solves issues of sourcing, souvenir-hunters and thin or bent pennies, and you can set a fair price for game play.

[tallstory]

Seem to be plenty of old pennies on Ebay at a reasonable price - probably less than having tokens made. And you get all that history with old pennies, ranging from Victoria to Elizabeth. I learned my recent kings and queens from these old coins and found it a loss when decimalisation was introduced. But on a positive note, I have fewer holes in my pockets now.

[badpenny]

.................. But on a positive note, I have fewer holes in my pockets now.

Yes I outgrew that habit as well, my probationary officer refocussed me.
Nothing to do with vintage arcades, but I went to a living museum once where you were given 6 old pennies to pay for tram and bus trips etc.
They had a sign up with a list of years from 1920 to 1967, next to each date was something to do with that year (easy to find on Gurgle.com) it added to the interest and gave the coins another dimension.

BP

[pauljt71]

Topic merged- Site Admin.

So, as many of you know, I operate Temples Penny Arcade. This weekend has highlighted what is becoming a big problem and I am asking your opinions/experiences please.

All of my machines work on old penny. We offer these to the public at £1 for 10 old pennies. We always lose the odd few but this weekend has been terrible. People have been seen sorting through the coins and pocketing certain dates. Some have approached the staff, purchased a cup of pennies and walked away with the entire lot! Throughout this weekend it appears we have encountered an area where people think that anything with an old “date” on it is worth stealing!

I have always wanted to keep the machines on old penny to give historical context and experience for the player. The problem is that now, as the cost of replacing the coins is rising, do I look at the alternative and have custom tokens produced, which will be less likely taken home…..

Thoughts from fellow operators appreciated together with any suggestions of places that could produce said tokens for me.

[treefrog]

Not being an operator, surely it is pure economics… Good pennies cost 10p each, eg £120 per bag of 1200 (of course you may get slightly cheaper).

As such you should be charging at least 20p a go…

You were going to look into cost of making them two years ago. Did you get a price? I would think not a massive difference for custom making low volume...

Put your prices up.

[slotalot]

If you drill a small hole through the old pennies, say 1/8 inch dia, they can still be used on the machines but will have no value to collectors. Just an idea...

[treefrog]

If you drill a small hole through the old pennies, say 1/8 inch dia, they can still be used on the machines but will have no value to collectors. Just an idea...

Lotta work. Also some bandits will have detector levers heading towards centre of the coin and half Paul’s machines are bandits….

Funny, back at Elephant and Coventry auctions, the sealed bags used to sell for between £50 and £90… I, like many, bought a few sacks… The last sale on the latest Elephant online auction had a sack sell for over £300. Supply and demand. Maybe when proper auctions return prices will return to normal…

[pauljt71]

If you drill a small hole through the old pennies, say 1/8 inch dia, they can still be used on the machines but will have no value to collectors. Just an idea...

I would love to put the price up. Yesterday went I told someone the price was 10 pennies for a pound their reply was “that’s an effing terrible exchange rate, you’re effing ripping me off mate, don’t you know there is a recession on!“
Damned if you do damned if you don’t!

To be honest I forgot I put the original post on about tokens a few years ago.

I will get in touch with Joby Carter and see if he can advise where he got his made.

[aristomatic]

What if you print pennies cup/container with your advertising/artwork to hold pennies? Charge whatever you want for pennies and cup. Cup/container has purpose, e.g. to hold coins/ payouts etc. Cup disguises/deflects from direct cost per pennies. You can more easily increase price as costs rise? Punters retain the cup as a souvenir, maybe less so than pennies. Retained cup gives punter memories but also has your advertising/contact details.

Use the same artwork to use on selected merchandise to sell as add-ons. Maybe up pricing on 10 pennies so 20 in cup price looks like better value and convert more people to buy 20 instead of 10, whilst any still buying 10, well your profit increases proportionately, (you could always trial this with a generic cup before taking the plunge with your printed cup). Gauge any uplift versus losing some 10 coin punters.

Just some thoughts. Not saying any will help you, but may get you thinking on wider options than just pennies v tokens, although some ideas can still overlap. It's your business and you know its constraints not me/us. People may be quick to dismiss my ideas and others, as maybe poorly thought out. However, any input should be seen as helpful, as it may lead you to the resolution through another route, maybe not now but in another time in the future.

[pauljt71]

However, any input should be seen as helpful, as it may lead you to the resolution through another route, maybe not now but in another time in the future.

Many thanks for taking the time to share some ideas. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated, I guess that’s the whole point of the forum :-) it gets us thinking.

We do currently use small paper cups (previously plastic ones but people complained saying we weren’t environmentally friendly, you can’t win!)

The arcade is quite small and currently has just 10 machines on it. I’m working on an extension which will increase this to 12. When I started out I offered 20 coins at £2. I found that lots of people then just asked if they could buy 10 for £1. A problem when we had less machines was that 20 coins meant they actually stayed too long in play. Trial and error has shown that by supplying 10 coins they get at least one go on each machine and then are hungry to purchase more! I guess the real problem is not that people don’t buy the coins, more that people are stealing them. If I can get a good supply of old pennies at a reasonable rate this won’t be such a problem. Unless of course the price of scrap goes up even more as people try and heat their house is this winter.