More Money than Brains....

General vintage slot machine related topics.
roger
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More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

You may want to check out the Morphy auction scheduled for October in the U.S...........all items are pictured on their website. I would like to hear your comments regarding the estimated prices.

Coin-op collecting in the U.S. first started to gain popularity in the 1970s. Machines were available at a reasonable price relative to an average annual income.

If prices at this auction achieve their estimates, it is my humble opinion, that coin-op collectors are ready for the LOONY-BIN. !!SUICIDAL!! ROGER
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clubconsoles
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by clubconsoles »

Roger
They have always been high, seem to be even higher since their previous auctions were cancelled due to Covid. Maybe they are trying to make up for lost commission by ramping up estimates. Was a great shame they pulled out of Vegas, i doubt i will go again :( :(
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moonriver
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by moonriver »

Morphy's have had nothing but bad feedback from customers about pulling out of Vegas. They use the reasoning that the Vegas site was not cost effective to run, but it should have been worth them subsidising it to keep it there longer.
There was a noticeable decline in attendance over recent years as more of the old American collectors have died and their collections come to auction. To some extent it was competition from this pool of high end collectors that kept prices up. It will be interesting to see what will happen long-term.
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

MOONRIVER commented that more of the old American collectors have died off.........

As I look around, I must be the last one kicking having just reached ninety five.

Again, I will be truly amazed if the machines reach their estimated prices. ROGER !PUZZLED!
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

P.S. Assuming I last till the auction next month....be assured that I will not be bidding.

GUESS WHO ??????????? !!DIG!!
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clubconsoles
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by clubconsoles »

moonriver wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:27 pm Morphy's have had nothing but bad feedback from customers about pulling out of Vegas. They use the reasoning that the Vegas site was not cost effective to run, but it should have been worth them subsidising it to keep it there longer.
There was a noticeable decline in attendance over recent years as more of the old American collectors have died and their collections come to auction. To some extent it was competition from this pool of high end collectors that kept prices up. It will be interesting to see what will happen long-term.
100% agree moonriver
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treefrog
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by treefrog »

I am not sure it matters where an auction house is when you have a country as big as the US. The important thing is the service, quality of lots submitted and reputation. I have seen the US collectors moan on the Facebook groups, but collectors moan about every auction house. Look at everyone who moans about the Elephant House and Coventry, but they still go.

One thing is certain, from the quality of the auctions over the years, they far exceed any other I am aware of in the US. Personally I found them very helpful when buying machines. I have heard of the bad cases of mis advertised items that are not true, but that happens everywhere. In terms of valuations, it looks like generic prices have been applied across many types. Not a lot of internet for collectors of British machines :#: At the end of the day if too high, they lose.....
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gameswat
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by gameswat »

Well since this is the last of Mel Getlans world class collection going to auction there is indeed a precedent set by his first auction in 2012, when over 300 pieces sold for a million dollars! Mel had one of the top 5 collections ever put together, known for rarity and fine condition, and most of these pieces have not seen the market place in 20, 30, 40 years. So I'd guess many of the estimated prices will turn out to be too low rather than too high. :!?!:
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

In reply to gameswat.....ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE..........In the world of securities we refer to it

as the "greater fool theory"...........all it takes is one person willing to buy it from you at a higher price. |/XX\|
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moonriver
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by moonriver »

treefrog wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:55 pm I am not sure it matters where an auction house is when you have a country as big as the US. The important thing is the service, quality of lots submitted and reputation. I have seen the US collectors moan on the Facebook groups, but collectors moan about every auction house. Look at everyone who moans about the Elephant House and Coventry, but they still go.

One thing is certain, from the quality of the auctions over the years, they far exceed any other I am aware of in the US. Personally I found them very helpful when buying machines. I have heard of the bad cases of mis advertised items that are not true, but that happens everywhere. In terms of valuations, it looks like generic prices have been applied across many types. Not a lot of internet for collectors of British machines :#: At the end of the day if too high, they lose.....
I think the point I was making is the VCA auction that Morphys bought out was a bit of an institution in Vegas, and whilst Morphys kept it there it was real fun visiting, staying in one of the nearby casinos on the Strip, many cheap flights out there to Vegas, making a trip of it, seeing some shows, fun 3 to 4 day stay along with the auction.
Now Morphys have moved it back to Denver, there is nothing else to do there compared to Vegas.
I do like Morphys as an auctioneer, very helpful and professional, and I buy from them a lot.
It's just very disappointing that Morphys Vegas are no more, everything changes in life, including our auctions at home, which is sad
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gameswat
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by gameswat »

Not sure why the current prices in particular have your goat in a flurry Roger, because there have always been high priced machines. A friend of mine who was a major player in jukeboxes from 1974 onwards (he said that was too late to get involved mind you) has a great photo on his workshop wall taken in 1981. He has his arm around a really rough piece of junk Wurlitzer 1015, the cabinet tied together with multiple brown string loops. When I first visited his place in California in 1996 I asked about the photo. He said the machine literally fell in a heap on the ground 5 mins later when he tried to move it. He had to re-build 90% of the wooden cabinet from scratch! I was shocked that anybody would go to that much effort for the most highly produced jukebox of all time at that point!? He said that while there were 1015's out there, NOBODY would sell them, in any condition! There was great interest to own most early jukes but the 1015 had really caught everyone's imagination to the point of being a mania. So he was happy to buy that piece of crap for a lot of money. He went on to finish the grade A restoration and sold the machine in 1982 for $12,000 usd, the most he ever attained for a juke he personally restored. Then he said word spread of the crazy prices being paid and it suddenly went from a sellers market to a buyers market. Everyone tried to cash in at once and the market crashed. And they never ever came back. Currently you can buy any number of grade A 1015's for $6000 or less, especially if you want to fix a few small issues. So using an inflation calculator $12,000 in 1982 translates to $32,320 in 2020. Or another way, $2230 in 1982 translates to $6000 in 2020.
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clubconsoles
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by clubconsoles »

I agree with all that. Top prices will always draw others out of the woodwork, especially if it's an item where literally thousands were made.

But there is another factor at work with the 1015 here.... the modern repros that play the 45s and CDs and now even Bluetooth.
They look exactly like the originals and play music that was never available on 78s. Made by Rowe, Rock Ola, Sound Leisure to name but a few!
Even Wurlitzer did a "One More Time" repro box which sold in vast numbers.
IMO this is the main reason that the originals suffered the big reductions in values since the '80s.
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

I agree with gameswat's inflation -adjustment analysis... basically, high-powered machines purchased

circa 1985 should have appreciated by a factor of 3 by 2020.

In searching the Morphy catalogue I find many machines estimated at $ 5,000- 300,000 :!: :!:

I am familiar with most of these machines and their value in the 1980's........the current estimates
greatly exceed this 3-1 ratio.

I would not bank on the "Greater Fool Theory". There are still som Dutchmen waiting to sell

their tulips '!' '!' '!' ROGER
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watlingman
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by watlingman »

For what it's worth I believe all the best stuff turns up at Morphy's, it's a buyer's market I'm a collector and buy if I like and can afford it,I never buy thinking about future resell prices or investment If I did I would still have a mills high top! :lol:
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gameswat
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by gameswat »

watlingman wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 pm For what it's worth I believe all the best stuff turns up at Morphy's,
I'd disagree Watling, many of the best pieces change hands privately. Some special collections like this one occasionally do end up in auction, often deceased estates since the family ave little idea, but also a lot of dogs with issues that sellers want to wash their hands of! I know because I've had to work on many of them for the buyers!! I also know collectors that specifically unload their junk that way. Buyer beware!!
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

If you review this entire thread you will see an array of predictions for the Morphy auction. Well, the
results are in and many machines did not reach their estimates while others went thru the roof.
In my opinion, the only "sleeper" was lot #1036 assuming you had the cash to burn.
I remind you again of the Great Tulip Bulb Mania....in the 17th century there was a great speculative
bubble for tulips in the Netherlands with some prices reaching the cost of an average home. :shock:
Eventually, prices collapsed, and most investors lost their shirts. :( :(
I grew up in the 1929 depression when 5 pennies bought you a double-dip ice cream cone.
And today's Morphy auction featured a $200,000 slot machine. :!: :!: :!: YIKES

How do you explain the Morphy coin-op prices which are so out-of-touch with the economy ??? !PUZZLED! ROGER !PUZZLED!
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arrgee
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by arrgee »

Roger wrote:How do you explain the Morphy coin-op prices which are so out-of-touch with the economy ???
Perhaps our friendly slot economist John T Peterson could enlighten us? (or are you too busy John following every step Donald is taking !!USA!! )
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john t peterson
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by john t peterson »

I'm hiding in my bunker at least until tomorrow. If the Orange Idiot wins again, I'll be looking for a Brit to sponsor my immigration application.

As for astronomical prices for some American coin-op, there is a lot of money sloshing around in the top tier. If two of these macho collectors get into a bidding battle, the result is a new "record" for the piece. I think the tulip example is relevant. Unless the nouveau riche tech millennials develop a taste for coin-op, we may be seeing the peak in prices in the not too distant future.

J Peterson
BunkerBoy USA !PEEP!
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moonriver
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by moonriver »

john t peterson wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:28 pm I'm hiding in my bunker at least until tomorrow. If the Orange Idiot wins again, I'll be looking for a Brit to sponsor my immigration application.
Come on Joe! |/XX\|
roger
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Re: More Money than Brains....

Post by roger »

I think that John T. Peterson hit the nail on the head when he posted that some insane Morphy prices were caused by two "MACHO COLLECTORS" bidding against themselves.
Check out lot # 2076 and let us know if you would have paid $ 10,880 for this simple coin drop. :!: :!: :!:
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