B Firman & Co. products

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brigham
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Re: Firmans

Post by brigham »

My Anglia van was so old it was Thames.
widget2k4
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Re: Firmans

Post by widget2k4 »

Sorry I don’t know any of its history except it came to me from London in a job lot of machines, sorry
tammy
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Thank you for sharing what you have. The machine reels stop fast and then bounce on to another fruit. I notice the three adjustable tensioners are all missing that slow the reels down... Is that what they do as I am not an expert like many on the site? Also if that's what they do has anyone a set of 3 they would sell me that aren't dear!
Thanking you all.
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

I have loads of reel brakes - pm me your address and you can have a set for free.
tammy
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Thank you coppinpr I have sent you email. Hope I can do same for you sometime.
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treefrog
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Re: Firmans

Post by treefrog »

Are you sure the reel brakes are missing? Not sure I have ever come across a machine with these gone... !PUZZLED!
tammy
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Yes missing. Probably when someone took reels off they forgot to put them back on afterwards. I also seem to remember a long time ago I got a mixed up bandit that had them missing in my younger days!!
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

Tom, for reel brakes read the long thin tension wires attached to the rear frame and tightened down against a grove on the reel drum (rather than the "reel stop levers"). These are described in Mills manuals and the pictorial guide as "reel brakes". The pictorial guide also refers to them as "often missing as they are not imperative to the operation of the machine", at least that is what I'm assuming is missing.
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

Reel brakes posted to you.
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Thank you coppinpr... They should do the wheel stopping smoother instead of bouncy!! You are spot on in your last description and comment... All the best and we will keep in touch! Best wishes tammy.
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

One thing to take into account, we have not seen the insides of your machine. It could have a ten stop mech but with 20 stop reel strips. This means it will always stop quite sharply as there are only 10 stops on the reels. Might be worth counting the number of gaps on one of the reels just so we know what's going on.
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Aw, you might be right. I think the last owner sent me a picture on this thread... If it was, and unless he used a different mechanism, the picture shows a 10 stop. The trouble is the before picture shows broken wood at the front of cabinet. I am a little confused, so tomorrow will try do some mech pictures. It's almost like a Time Team Special as it unfolds!!
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Hi coppinpr, I enclose mech photos and look forward to your comments. tammy
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

Ok, well definitely 10 stop then. So unless you have much a rarer mech that alternates between the two sets of symbols (can't see in the photos, but unlikely), ten of the symbols on each reel are never coming up. (Even if you do have the alternating system, it still only has ten stops). 10 stop mechs tend to much more clunky and sudden. You will see that the star wheels on each reel have the 10 stops and the reel lock slots on the payout discs also have 10 stops. It may well be that the reels are spinning too fast (usually it's just the opposite) and the reel brakes will make a big difference. My guess is the reel brakes were added on the original 10 stop mechs because they needed them. The reason so many get removed and never replaced is that 20 stop machines don't really need them as much. The 10s do seem to bounce sometimes, but it would have to bounce a total of three symbols to make a difference, as the symbols each side of the actual stopping place can never come up. For example, if there were orange-bell-plum-bar-cherry and the game ended on a plum, it would need to bounce to an orange or a cherry to make a difference, as it could never settle on the bell or bar. Is your machine making that big a bounce? If so, I think the reel brakes will sort the problem out.
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Thank you coppinpr for your expertise, it is and has been much valued! I will put the brake stop adjustments on it and live with the fact it's only a 10 stop but should be a 20 stop for the reel strips it has on it!!.. I thought it was funny how it doesn't seem to get many winning lines and so doesn't pay out much!.. It doesn't have the right reel symbols for a 10 stop mech, as you rightly pointed out. Still it's a lovely looking machine so I will enjoy it and hopefully find an old 20 stop mech to buy. If anyone not too far from East Yorkshire has a cheapish one, then let me know. I am a purist as some say as I don't like new shiny reel strips but like the original ones from the past arcade days! I bought a nice set of really old reel strips a while ago and was going to put them on this bandit when I decided to buy it. However with your good advice and knowledge I will keep them till I have a 20 stop mech for them.
Regards tammy
tammy
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Re: Firmans

Post by tammy »

Hi Freddy,
I found 5 token like coins inside an original 1930s Roman Head Bandit wrapped in old yellowed newspaper in a side display window. It was back in 1972. The coins have serrated edges and are coin like and old penny size too. At first look I thought they were gold... but evidently gilt or coated.
I still have the 3 coins/tokens 47 years on and I think no one on the site seems to know what they are. I feel with all your earlier years of knowledge you might? They appear too well made. Were they made as early gold award tokens for Mills machines? I would be interested in what you think.
I had to use an earlier picture I used last time I asked on the forum. I have put the coin tokens away but if the quality of the pivtures is too poor I will dig them out next week as they look so much better than in this photo!
Thank you in anticipation! tammy
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

tammy wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:10 pmthe fact it's only a 10 stop but should be a 20 stop for the reel strips it has on it!!.
Definitely NOT the case, although your reel strips may not be the original strips. 20 stop strips are most likely correct. In the early days, which this machine represents, Mills fitted 20 symbol strips to 10 stop machines to make it look like there were more options in the "just missed it by one" vane when there was of course never the chance of getting that close by winner. I believe this idea was soon outlawed in the USA but refurbishers in the UK loved it increasing the profits for operators. I very much recommend keeping the rarer strips the machine has now. This was how it was designed to run and represents an interesting talking point when showing off your machine.
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treefrog
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Re: Firmans

Post by treefrog »

Unless I have misunderstood Widget, the machine in its previous state is on the previous page and on the first page from 6 years ago. Had number strips enlarged for 10 stop. Numbers were commonly used either in the large for or with 20 stop variants on 10 stop mechs.....suspect the strips have been changed these fortune ones.... Also top marquee seems to have gone.
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brigham
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Re: Firmans

Post by brigham »

Numbers instead of fruit were generally a British idea; the fruit symbols still carried a whiff of 'organized crime' in the 1940s and '50s.
The legal status of these machines was questionable in Britain, and dealers such as Tom Boland tried to minimise the 'dodgy' aspects such as the 10 stop/20 symbol device, by making the numbers large enough to fill the whole window.
Boland did produce a set of fruit symbols to fill the window on 10-stop mechs, but they were, and are, very rarely seen. They have a resemblance to the German style found on Beromat-type wall machines.
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coppinpr
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Re: Firmans

Post by coppinpr »

I agree that when Firmans released the machine on the public it probably had the usual UK numbers in double size so it could be said the 10 stop numbers are original but I'll bet you the old mech started life in the USA with twenty stop strips on the 10 stop mech and it didn't have numbers for sure. I hate the numbers, they make the game less interesting.
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