Mutoscope Owners

Somebody knows... Maybe you?
Post Reply
slotsoffun
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm
Reaction score: 0

Mutoscope Owners

Post by slotsoffun »

Hi Guys
Does any member on these forums own a Mutoscope of any kind? I'm trying to establish the exact dimensions of the movie reels. Primarily the overall diameter and width. The size of the metal centre hub, size of the small metal peg on centre hub. Also Width of a card, the height of the actual picture.
As a long shot, anyone got a broken reel with loose cards and centre hubs apart, would like a photo please!
Any help would be appreciated. Cheers
MutoReel2.jpg
MutoReel2.jpg (16.12 KiB) Viewed 4544 times


MutoReel1.jpg

andydotp
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:35 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by andydotp »

Afraid not but I'm sure our fountain of knowledge and expert Bob will be along at some point.
User avatar
bob
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:06 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: Australia

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by bob »

The Mutoscope flanges have a diameter of 4 5/16 inches (110 mm).
The lugs are 1/4 by 5/8 inches (7mm by 15mm) with rounded corners. I’ll attach a photo of a pair of flanges that show their profile which acts to retain the cards on the reel.
The overall diameter of the reels should be 10 1/2 (267mm) but are sometimes larger as the cards have lost some or the entire curve that they originally had to provide “snap”.
The distance from the flange to the outside of the reel is 3 inches (75mm) but the above comment concerning the curve applies here also.
The complete size of the cards is 3 9/16 inches (88mm) by 2 11/16 inches (68mm).
The picture area is 1 31/32 (50mm) by 2 11/16 inches (68mm).
Attachments
Complete Mutoscope card and picture area portion of card
Complete Mutoscope card and picture area portion of card
Muto reel flanges
Muto reel flanges
slotsoffun
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by slotsoffun »

Many thanks Bob for taking the time to do all those measurements, really do appreciate it.
I notice that there's a lack of dedicated forums for MutoScope owners to ask questions and exchange help.

Cheers again
slotsoffun
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by slotsoffun »

Bob,
Another question? I'm curious why all Reel cards have that hole below the picture? It does not appear to serve any purpose unless its used to help the alignment during manufacture?
What do you think?
User avatar
bob
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:06 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: Australia

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by bob »

The holes are as you correctly assume used for alignment purposes.
User avatar
john t peterson
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 pm
Reaction score: 7
Location: USA

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by john t peterson »

Dear Bob,

I'm still holding out hope that you and Larry will finish the definitive book on MutoScope.

J Peterson
Springing hope in USA !!MEXWAVE!!
patrikd
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: MutoScope Owners

Post by patrikd »

I also miss a forum about Mutoscopes. I have one old Mutoscope in cast iron, probably from 1890/1900, British made I think, with one reel to it. I have the history of it also - it has been in a place called "Passagen" in Stockholm. "Passagen" was a shopping gallery in the early 1900 (and still is), placed in the fancy parts of Stockholm. I also found some old pictures from the shopping gallery with the Mutoscope standing there.

Patrik
slotsoffun
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by slotsoffun »

Has anyone seen or held a reel from a Mutoscope? Just wondered if the cards alternate with blank cards? Watching videos of reels playing, it looks as though there is a shorter card behind each picture card? Is this the case or do every card have a picture on?
Cheers for any comments
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7211
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reaction score: 25
Location: East Midlands

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by badpenny »

Not with the two I had.
User avatar
daveslot
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Reaction score: 0
Location: wilts/dorset/somerset border

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by daveslot »

I always thought there was a card between each image to help the reel "flick" and prevent wear.
User avatar
JC
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:38 pm
Reaction score: 9
Location: Kent
Contact:

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by JC »

That's correct, every alternate card is blank.
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7211
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reaction score: 25
Location: East Midlands

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by badpenny »

Not on mine, I removed them all as they were causing other pictures to be induced in the allwins I had either side.
User avatar
bob
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:06 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: Australia

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by bob »

On all Mutoscope reels cards with pictures on them have a slightly shorter card interleaving them. These cards are there so that the cards with pictures are held in place by the "book trip" for a longer time in a stationary position than they would be otherwise and also to snap the picture cards down more quickly by the resilient quality of the interleaving cards. The quick forward movement of the cards blurs the movement to the viewer. The interleaving card thus creates an effect similar to that provided by the maltese cross system on a film projector which holds the film picture stationary in place for a moment while the light shines through it and has a shutter which obscures the light at the moment that the film is pulled down.
rob.n
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:27 am
Reaction score: 0

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by rob.n »

This is all great information! Thanks! I'm in the process of a very ambitious project of creating a replica of an early wooden Mutoscope. I also want to extend the running time of the reel so I plan on making the metal hubs from scratch and making them bit larger, maybe 1/2 inch more in diameter for a total of 4 13/16". This will allow me to add cards to the reel.

I have several questions and would greatly appreciate any information to help me move forward on the project:

1. How many cards are in the average reel. I have read there are 850 but when I count from photos of reels, I come up with around 720.
2. Does anyone know the type of paper used for the cards. weight, etc.?
3. What is the magnification of the viewing lens?
4. Does anyone know of a Mutoscope mechanism that might be for sale? Just the mechanics.

Thanks so much for the help. I might try to post progress on the project for anyone who might be interested.
Rob
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by pennymachines »

:WELCOME: Rob.
rob.n wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:38 pm 1. How many cards are in the average reel. I have read there are 850 but when I count from photos of reels, I come up with around 720.
800 is about average, I believe, but earlier reels had more.
rob.n wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:38 pm 2. Does anyone know the type of paper used for the cards. weight, etc.?
I don't, but you might find this topic instructive: Reproduction Mutoscope reels?
rob.n wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:38 pm 3. What is the magnification of the viewing lens?
Again, I don't know I'm afraid, but here are the dimensions.
rob.n
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:27 am
Reaction score: 0

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by rob.n »

Thanks so much for you input!
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by pennymachines »

Rereading, I see that Bob mentioned the very durable and snappy photographic “paper” from Eastman Kodak. I don't think they make it now, but presumably there's a suitable substitute. See Kodak Black & White Printing Paper, Films and Chemistry - by Michael Talbert

Excellent technical pdf on History, Technology, and Preservation of Biograph Company Mutoscope Reels
The company purchased 68mm bromide paper from Kodak company as the source materials for manufacturing mutoscope cards. Bromide paper is paper coated with gelatin bromide of silver emulsion.
There could be up to 1000 images (2000 'leaves', blank sheets included).
rob.n
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:27 am
Reaction score: 0

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by rob.n »

Excellent information. I did not know that the American Mutoscope Company started in Hoboken, N.J. Hoboken was my home in the late 1990s. Thanks again for taking the time to post the info and for a great forum.
cheeky
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:19 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: North East Essex

Re: Mutoscope Owners

Post by cheeky »

I would absolutely love an old tinny. I have spoken to quite a few old operators and I’m surprised how many are in lock-ups in the UK. One arcade owner handed over 20 of them to another operator as part of a deal for some new machines. He’s keeping them for now. 🙄
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests