Tobacco Honour Boxes
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Tobacco vending Honour or Honesty Boxes
Copied from The original collector - Site Admin.
Perhaps less surprising that someone in England was collecting tobacco vending honour boxes around the same time:
"A penny inserted in the slot would open the lid into the box where the smoker dipped his pipe. As simple as this was, it was clever enough to permit half-penny pieces to go through the slot without permitting the would-be cheat to get at the tobacco". Automatic Age, 1939.
Perhaps less surprising that someone in England was collecting tobacco vending honour boxes around the same time:
New York Sun, 1935.An English antiquarian when told about the discovery of coin operated machines merely interrupted and became so extraordinarily English and said he knew all about it— he would. However, this man really did know something, for he had a collection of tobacco boxes which included some of the kind that were used in the English inns and taverns nearly two hundred years ago. Many of them are quite cute. They are all jars, some fitted with a slot into which a penny was pushed and by giving a hard knock on a small knob near the slot, a lid opened and the “customer” helped himself to a tiny packet of tobacco.
From what was seen of this collection of tobacco jars and pocket baccy boxes, perhaps some people may be soon using up some of their surplus income on similar pots and boxes. They had never seen one of the penny-in-slot kind before, but they have seen a number of pottery ones, some of them not unlike the Toby jugs.
If there are any of the slot-machine kind in the country they would be just the kind of things the early tavern keepers would have sent out from England.
"A penny inserted in the slot would open the lid into the box where the smoker dipped his pipe. As simple as this was, it was clever enough to permit half-penny pieces to go through the slot without permitting the would-be cheat to get at the tobacco". Automatic Age, 1939.
Re: Rich's Honour Box
Early in my collecting almost forty years ago, I acquired an Honour Box marked Rich's Patent on the top. Somewhere I read that this was the first coin operated device of any kind to have been patented anywhere. For some years I searched every way possible to find Rich's patent without any luck.
Similar to the other one, it is stamped on the top "Rich's Patentee".
I wonder if any reader has managed to locate Rich's patent or has any more information about these coin op machines.
About five years ago I was lucky enough to obtain another very similar Honour Box at a local auction. This Honour Box had belonged to a Melbourne suburban Bowling Club, which is still in existence. Having been presented to the club by the proprietor of a local engineering company it is beautifully engraved including the date 1878 making it certainly the oldest machine in my collection.VICTORIA BOWLING CLUB PRESENTED BY ROBT. BODINGTON June 1878
FILL YOUR PIPE AND CLOSE THE BOX
Similar to the other one, it is stamped on the top "Rich's Patentee".
I wonder if any reader has managed to locate Rich's patent or has any more information about these coin op machines.
Last edited by bob on Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rich's Honour Box
I have never attempted to search the patent, but wonder if it worked, as a few companies made these in the late 19th century with similar mechanisms, but slightly different styles.
What most of them are missing is the liner. The tobacco container should be lined with a thin wood. I think they were oak. I have had a few and still have one with original liner. I guess this was to help keep the tobacco fresh.
What most of them are missing is the liner. The tobacco container should be lined with a thin wood. I think they were oak. I have had a few and still have one with original liner. I guess this was to help keep the tobacco fresh.
Re: Rich's Honour Box
Great to see this again Bob. Had never seen anything like it until I visited you.
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Re: Rich's Honour Box
https://www.bl.uk/help/find-early-british-patentsBefore October 1852, details of granted English patents were simply recorded (enrolled) in the Patent Rolls at the end of a long, cumbersome and costly application process. No numbering system was in place.
See Nic Costa's research on Andrew Rich
The custom is, before you fill,
To put a penny in the till,
When you have filled, without delay,
Close the lid, or sixpence pay.
Re: Rich's Honour Box
Unlike our previous Liberal Prime Minister Tony Abbot who famously said in a televised speech to the party faithful that "no one is a suppository (sic) of all wisdom", Mr Pennymachines is certainly a repository of all knowledge concerning coin op machines.
This would seem to explain why my repeated searches in the Melbourne Public Library and the Canberra Patent Office, which I thought had all the published early British Patents did not turn up Rich's patent. This is presumably one of those English patents granted between 1617 and 30 September 1852 which were identified from the "Rolls". Some of these had technical specifications and it is possible that Rich's patent is one of these. Unfortunately it seems that although these details now exist in digital form they are only "available to BL staff and public PCs only". I imagine that this would preclude access by me in Australia. Perhaps someone in the UK could follow this up on a "public PC" in a UK Public Library or branch of the British Patent Office.
It was quite delightful to see the illustration of the charming Early Toleware Honour Box with painted fox & pheasant and also Treefrog's basic tin version with hidden mechanism and push button release, both of which I was not previously aware. All of the Honour Boxes I have come across or seen illustration of, have been variations of Rich's patent, similarly made of brass of a similar size but having slightly different feet, handle or coin entry.
This would seem to explain why my repeated searches in the Melbourne Public Library and the Canberra Patent Office, which I thought had all the published early British Patents did not turn up Rich's patent. This is presumably one of those English patents granted between 1617 and 30 September 1852 which were identified from the "Rolls". Some of these had technical specifications and it is possible that Rich's patent is one of these. Unfortunately it seems that although these details now exist in digital form they are only "available to BL staff and public PCs only". I imagine that this would preclude access by me in Australia. Perhaps someone in the UK could follow this up on a "public PC" in a UK Public Library or branch of the British Patent Office.
It was quite delightful to see the illustration of the charming Early Toleware Honour Box with painted fox & pheasant and also Treefrog's basic tin version with hidden mechanism and push button release, both of which I was not previously aware. All of the Honour Boxes I have come across or seen illustration of, have been variations of Rich's patent, similarly made of brass of a similar size but having slightly different feet, handle or coin entry.
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Re: Rich's Honour Box
More examples, copied from the Arena and Saleroom roundups:
A Halfpenny pay,
Before you fill;
Or Forfeit Sixpence,
Which you will
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Re: Tobacco Honour Boxes
And another 'boat shape' variant in a fellow collector's possession. I took the photo a few years ago.
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Re: Tobacco Honour Boxes
'A Halfpenny put into the Till,
Press down the knob & your pipe then fill,
When it is filled, without delay,
Shut down the lid or Sixpence pay.’
Nic Costa's new Penny in the Slot book delves deep into the origins of honour boxes.
Notably, his research has discovered an obituary naming Andrew Rich (watchmaker) as patentee of the aforementioned Rich's Patent boxes. No patent has surfaced yet, but a date between 1826 - 1829 can be surmised.
If much earlier references to coin operated tobacco boxes cannot be found, the 1600s date I referenced is implausible.
It's perhaps significant that Nic finds several individuals producing versions of the device around the same time:
Samuel Stocker (gunsmith) filed patent number 12852 for a coin-operated tobacco box in 1849; in the early 1840s Green & Broad, locksmiths of New York, manufactured a box which appears to have been based upon Rich's;
"Penny Papers", Green & Broad Co., New York
American box advertising Lola Bell Tobacco by the P. Lorillard Company
and a few years before Rich, in 1822, William Hodghon (tinsmith) advertised a mechanical tobacco caddy: "far superior to the old one, by doing away with the crank; the moment the half-penny is dropped in, you will touch the thumb-piece, and the lead will fall completely back, with the spring and tumbler."
So evidently, at least one version of the tobacco box existed before 1822.
Interestingly, the unusual (and very early looking) toleware example has a crank, but Rich's Patent boxes (as below) have a thumb-piece, or brass button, and work as Hodghon's advert describes,
whilst others (as below) have done away with the button, and flip open upon insertion of a coin.
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Re: Tobacco Honour Boxes
Really good observations as ever. The key to developing coin operated machines was having reliable and consistent coins. These were the major developments in the late 1700's as witnessed by Abel Buell's efforts in the States and Solomon Henry's in the UK, as detailed by Nic Costa.
Re: Tobacco Honour Boxes
Given how basic the mechanisms were I doubt coin reliability would have made much difference. People could stick any object of the right size in the hole… Perhaps the word 'honesty' was not just associated with how much you stuck in them, but what you put in them as well…
The first proper pennies did not appear until 1825 as we know them… the earlier Boulton Soho coins were much thicker, so would have had a brief use if made for slot machines.
The first proper pennies did not appear until 1825 as we know them… the earlier Boulton Soho coins were much thicker, so would have had a brief use if made for slot machines.
Re: Tobacco Honour Boxes
As you can see Rich's machine dates from 1826-8 after the introduction of the first proper pennies.
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