Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Advice and guidance on repair and restoration techniques.
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alan57
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Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by alan57 »

The reels on one of my Mills Hi Tops stopped spinning over the weekend when the handle is pulled. On closer inspection, and after taking the reels off, I noticed the top of the kicker had sheared off - see pictures.
Is this a common fault?, I guess metal does fracture over a period of time when in constant use.
Would I be right in thinking, after taking the kicker off, the top can be welded back?, or is a replacement kicker the way forward.
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treefrog
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by treefrog »

Never seen that before......the top plate is sacrificial and you can see had two rivets in which is the part that would wear and be replaced. Looks like the actual kicker has broken. Might be possible to weld, but I suspect it would be easier to replace.
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badpenny
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by badpenny »

I've seen it before but not often.
It's not unusual to see them where it's been strengthened with an add on bit, like yours has had at some time.

I have in the past brazed on the missing piece, welding is a bit fierce for such a small part.
Although fitting a replacement would be easier and more long term, you'll need to check it's an exact fit as over the years they did alter the length of the arm.

I once had a Tom Boland bandit conversion that I bought jammed. I could not get it to spin. Then Mick Harris Snr fixed it for me over the phone. The kicker although MLB stamped must have been a replacement following something similar to your current situation. The arm was too high which in turn jammed itself under the kick reels. It would pass under on the way out because of the sprung hinge, but not on the kick.

BP
paulmills
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by paulmills »

Hi guys
No damage to report just a general question about potential similar area of early worn kicker stages of Mills cherry Bell (cherry burst) Every 8 to 10 pulls the reels do not spin they almost stay stationary slightly tip back or marginally forward in different directions then reset the pay line then all good for a few plays / pulls, I also noticed that this re-occurs more since I put on the wire real stabilisers (wing nut wire bits) I know these machines will do this some less frequent than others ….. why?
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badpenny
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by badpenny »

It could be ...
Uneven wear on the disc teeth
Excessive wear on the kicker face
The pivot point at the base of the kicker worn and binding.

I suggest two things first.
If all was fine before you fitted the wire brakes, then remove them and see if continuity returns.
Check if the top of the kicker that folds to allow the arm pass under the discs as you pull the handle, bends freely and then snaps back into position for the throw. It might be staying depressed and missing the discs when it fires.

BP :cool:
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by paulmills »

Cheers BP thank you for getting back to me,
your first suggestion worn teeth on discs could be the issue as I did remove and take apart the reels, I removed patches from the disc plates where the machine had been rigged maybe my reassembling might be a tad out as I don’t remember it skipping before this point and when I got the machine it had only one break in use and yes when I remove the brakes it mis-spins much less often,. Noticed something potentially unusual with the discs reel
one has stamped on it R-1 though reel 2 and reel 3 are stamped with
J-2 and J-3,
Can send pics if that helps?
Thanks
Paul
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treefrog
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by treefrog »

Worth doing a small video as it helps to hear and see what is happening. It may be a timing issue if all parts do not clear before kicker fires like fingers etc.
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badpenny
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by badpenny »

paulmills wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:21 am Cheers BP thank you for getting back to me,
...................
Can send pics if that helps?
Thanks
Paul
I agree with Treefrog a video with sound is best, it gives many more clues than words alone.

Another, and possibly most likely cause has occurred to me.
Looking from the back there is a lever that engages with the teeth on the pay out discs.
anti roll.jpg

Part of its role is to keep the reels steady as the kicker passes underneath. Usually you can hear it clicking as it passes the serrations on the discs.
However if that lever releases the discs (in order to spin) too early then the kicker can fire and miss.

Easy to test as you can leave the mech in the case and watch with the door off. Pull the handle slowly, that lever should stay holding the discs all together in the right position, then tilting back just before the kicker fires.

BP !THUMBS!
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by paulmills »

Great and thank you again I have made a video however I’m not sure how to post it up on images this page? :!?!:
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treefrog
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by treefrog »

paulmills wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:19 pm Great and thank you again I have made a video however I’m not sure how to post it up on images this page? :!?!:
Easiest thing to do is to load on YouTube and share link here.

But also look at the points raised, eg are the fingers or the disc stop lever pointed out by BP prevent the reels spinning
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by paulmills »

Okay here is my video in words ….
Everything clears the reels -
fingers clear the real discs -
and back arm pulls away from the teeth of the discs at the last point ( pictured above)
before the kicker does its job
though the reels especially the third reel does tip slightly backwards before spin ( loads less with the breaks on it.
I hope this description helps sorry I can’t upload the video for you to see I’ve definitely worked out how to send photographs if that helps,
many thanks Paul
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badpenny
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by badpenny »

You said it doesn't happen every time?
Perhaps you need to check everything again just before it fails. -/00\-

BP :didact:
PS ... where on the planet are you located?
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Re: Mill Hi Top kicker damage

Post by paulmills »

Thanks for bearing with me, I’m sorry I can’t give you exact information,
And now I think I have worked it out ….
When I pull the handle in slow motion it spins every time perfect !!THUMBSX2!! though when I pull real fast this is when it sometimes mis-kicks.
You are right, it is to do with the timing of possibly when the back plate comes off the teeth of the reel discs?
If so is there any way I can adjust this part of the mech to be more precise? Or is this wear and tear of an 85 year old bandit?
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