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So I’m just about to take delivery of the above machine.

Looks to be in a bit of a state so a bit of a gamble really. I saw a couple of pics on this site but not much info. One mentions it was battery powered which I suppose is good to know before I tried to wire it to the mains.

Does anyone know much about these machines or know a source of info? It would be good to know what they were meant to do before I try to get it to do it although I suspect the principle is probably pretty simple.

Anyone got a rough value on these things once working? Piece of string?

Stuart Dale, spinster of this parish is your best bet.
He renovated one a few years back, doing a splendid job and put it on mains electrickery via a low amperage modern transformer/plug.
I have a vague memory of paying him around the same amount I sold it for at auction. Which I believe was less than £400.

I'm sure you know the system of operation, but in case others are interested ...
The score dial is advanced a point via the operation of a single action solenoid.
The playfield is metal, as are the balls and the spring bumpers. They all form part of the circuit.
The spring bumpers are isolated from the playfield.
The ball in play closes the circuit when it touches a spring bumper, hence the score dial advances.
A simple but effective method as the ball is presenting a different conductive surface every time. It's suggested that only a mercury switch is more effective.
Hence it is essential that the playfield, spring bumpers and balls are spotless.

Interestingly (or not) Stuart Dale and I both (separately) contacted the vendor to identify and advise him on the machine at the beginning of his auction. Although I didn't follow the auction until the end, on the occasions I did check it, he hadn't added to his description.

Good luck with it, I hope you enjoy your treasure.

BP

That playfield description sounds a bit wonky to me BP. Sure looks like a painted playfield and not metal. Those spring bumpers should work like all the other pins of the time, the springs ending in a rod at the base that passes through the middle of a carbon ring in the playfield. The ball hitting the spring causes the contact to be made, no electrical circuit through the ball. What a pity Hoopers decided to make the most boring looking E/M pin of all time!

when you get it can you please add pictures at IPDB? https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=6500

gameswat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:11 am That playfield description sounds a bit wonky to me BP.

S'possible, I didn't keep it long. My assumption was based on the one time it went awry. There was a buzzing and the score dial froze.
Turned out the bottom of a spring bumper had deformed and was in contact with the play field. Everything returned to normal once the contact was cleared.

Thanks for the comments. Helpful info as my knowledge of these is currently zero. I was also thinking of popping a mains transformer into it if I can get it working. It would be helpful to know what voltage they originally ran on - 6v? 12v? Or something more exotic?!

I got it for £75 so we will see exactly what I have got when it arrives. It will clearly need some work. I just hope there aren’t too many bits missing as this could end play!

Here’s a couple of pics from the listing. I’ll post some more once I get into it but it might be a few weeks before I can get going on it.

gameswat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:11 amThose spring bumpers should work like all the other pins of the time, the springs ending in a rod at the base that passes through the middle of a carbon ring in the playfield. The ball hitting the spring causes the contact to be made, no electrical circuit through the ball.

Well after my people talking to Stuart's people, I am astonished to publicly announce that I am corrupt ..... I mean correct. (probably right the first time!)
The steel ball acts as the switch to activate the solenoid which moves the score dial. It does it by closing the circuit between the playfield and the spring bumper.
Big S provided me with a copy of the diagram for the Spring Bumper.


BP

Interesting. Looks like I might have a spring polishing job on my hands when it arrives!

So does anyone know what voltage it works on, or how to find out?

With no info I have obviously to check the resistance of the solenoid but without knowing how much power it’s meant to consume I can’t work out the voltage. Alternative, I guess I could just start with a low voltage and raise till the solenoid starts to operate (within reason!).
Or I can hope for a big 12v sticker somewhere on it! Hmmm.....

As I said BP, the patent shows the bottom of the spring going through the carbon ring set into the playfield. If the ball made the circuit through the spring to the playfield, then why bother with that leg and hole in the playfield? And yes, they do spark sometimes.

First one I've seen with a polished metal playfield.
Looks like it, and the ball, form part of the bumper circuit.
I wonder how well it lasts in front-line service?

Hello All
Sorry for the late appearance to the party, not been able to log onto the forum
So first a big Thank you to our Commander in chief Dave and his apprentice Jeremy for sorting out the glitch

Down to business

Hoopers Pinball Machine.

This machine when new never had mains power. The lower compartment on the head box (pic1) would have had a 12-volt battery. This would have made the machine portable and could be used anywhere. The transformer you can see was added later, and as far as I could tell, it had never been connected up.
The circuit for this machine is about as simple as they come: the large square coil to the right of the score mech adds the score, and the smaller round (black) coil resets the score on game start; the little round plug to the right connects the head box to the playfield; the item to the far left is the anti-tilt switch.

As to the playfield, (pic2)
On putting a coin in the machine, the coin slide engages with the steel bar that runs the full length of the playfield. This “mechanically” releases the balls into play. It also makes a leaf switch that resets the score pointer, and also energises the adjacent relay. This is the anti-tilt relay. The coin slide must be fully withdrawn before play can start. The steel bar is fitted with an adjustable damper to make it a smooth operation.

The playfield is made of stainless steel and grounded to the -ve of the 12 volt DC supply. The spring bumpers are wired in series to the +ve of the 12 volt DC supply. The black box to the right is a capacitor/spark suppressor. The metal ball makes the contact between the playfield and the spring bumpers.
On the machine that I restored, I used a 12 volt DC plug-in adaptor, rated at 2amps, because I didn’t want mains electricity inside the machine, because of all the “live” metal parts.

For the machine to work efficiently the ball, playfield and bumper springs must be kept clean and free of oil and grease. I found when striping and cleaning the machine the original paint colour was chocolate brown.

I hope this helps a little.

Stuart.

Good luck with the restoration.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Stuart. Looks like you’ve done a great job with yours!

All this info is really helpful and will definitely help me make a speedier start in sorting it.

Out of interest how many balls did you get for one coin? You said they were all released at once. Did the plunger just use the ball queue up one at a time as you played till they were gone?

I’ll post some progress pics once I get going!

geofflove wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:17 pm

Out of interest how many balls did you get for one coin? You said they were all released at once. Did the plunger just use the ball queue up one at a time as you played till they were gone?

I don't have the machine anymore, but as far as I remember, and it was 10 years ago, there were 5 steel balls, cant remember the size but I don't think the size is critical once released the balls just roll in front of the plunger one at a time.

Thanks Stuart for rallying to the flag when needed.
I'll let you drift back to sleep beneath the halls of the gods set deep within the mountains of Olympia.

Should I need to awaken you again with the fiery horn of Shefras in order to clarify an issue, I'll send you an email first.
Regards
BP

Well sorry for casting aspersions your way BP! I'm amazed they tried to partly reinvent the already very reliable spring bumpers. I can only imagine it was a much cheaper way to produce the game by not having to draw and apply any kind of artwork!? Sadly makes for an extremely boring looking game. Even if they'd applied pre-existing water decals around the playfield like lightning bolts would have been a huge improvement. Considering the flashy graphics and much more complex gameplay of US made pins they were competing against these must've had a hard time on location.

I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s, in which case they may have been competing with fairly primitive, largely mechanical, American pinballs. Is that spring bumper diagram from a dated patent? Certainly Hoopers games are consistently conservative in design.

gameswat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:07 pm Well sorry for casting aspersions your way BP! I'm amazed they tried to partly reinvent the already very reliable spring bumpers. I can only imagine it was a much cheaper way to produce the game by not having to draw and apply any kind of artwork!? Sadly makes for an extremely boring looking game. Even if they'd applied pre-existing water decals around the playfield like lightning bolts would have been a huge improvement. Considering the flashy graphics and much more complex gameplay of US made pins they were competing against these must've had a hard time on location.

No probs my friend. It's all about learning at the end of the day.
I certainly agree it's the epitome of how not to entice slackening of purse strings, they'd obviously never considered self marketing as an essential part of design. I once had Hooper's vertical bagatelle machine, an engineering masterpiece with a scoring dial mechanism to wonder at. Yet it weighed a ton and made no attempt to suggest why you should play it. Totally lacking in suggestions like "Challenge your friends!!" or "Loser buys next round" It just sat there apologetically.

BP

pennymachines wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm Is that spring bumper diagram from a dated patent?

This is Bally's Patent No. 2,109,678 ("CONTACT SWITCH FOR BALL ROLLING GAMES") application made on January 12, 1937. Though Bumper had already been placed on sale in Dec 1936. Bally certainly didn't steal the idea from Hooper.

pennymachines wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s, in which case they may have been competing with fairly primitive, largely mechanical, American pinballs.

PM, the yanks were very quick to copy each other and then make improvements. I've owned some very clever pinballs from the 1930's as the pin industry boomed and hence was a very creative time period. This Confucius Say pinball by Rotor Table games of NY is one of my faves for many reasons. The table body itself dates 1935/36 but the playfield dates early 1937, only a few months after Bally introduced the new spring bumpers. Already there were added scoring features like a bonus system down the left side which advances balls. This game is unusual in that it was aimed at high end locations like restaurants and nightclubs etc that would not normally take a pinball. The playfield rotates around to any of up to 4 players seated around it, but the glass stays put! The table was designed to take a number of different playfields that just plug into it, predating cocktail video cabinets that did this by 45 years.

gameswat wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:20 pm the pin industry boomed and hence was a very creative time period.

Absolutely, by 1935 all-mechanical pins were looking 'old hat'.

Slotalot's Skill Score has the "Supplied by Hoopers' Automatics" badge on it. Assuming it has the Pentonville address, it was made after the outbreak of WW2 (when the company moved from their old premises in Islington). In that case, it really was already a bit of a dinosaur.



Marketing didn't extend to giving it a unique name. "Skill Score" comes from the text and appears on one of their wall machines too.