Allied/Victory/Conquerors Flags

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rivierakid
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Allied/Victory/Conquerors Flags

Post by rivierakid »

Topic moved - Site Admin.

I'm a newcomer to the forum and never imagined this would be the title of my first post!

After being away from collecting circles for a good few years, I've recently become the proud owner of an early Automatic Novelty Co Victory Flag wall machine (some of you may have seen it on ebay). The machine was originally a six-ball catcher but at some time in it's history the operator has moved the odds in his favour by changing it to a four-ball (not too difficult just remove a couple of balls and over-write the instruction card). I would like to return it to a six-ball machine, not least to give a fair chance of winning at the game which is nearly impossible with only four balls!

So I wondered if anyone could help me out with where I might find some extra ball bearings to suit this machine. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so "period" balls would be preferred to anything too new and shiny.

All help gratefully appreciated.
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Victory Flag.jpg
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slotalot
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Re: I need balls!

Post by slotalot »

https://pennymachines.co.uk/Archive/Spares-1.shtml
Hi and welcome to the forum :D , if you click on the above link !!JUNK!! it should take you to the Archive, were you can get new balls :burp:
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john t peterson
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Re: I need balls!

Post by john t peterson »

Rivierakid,

Congratulations on your purchase of an iconic game. It's a beauty!

J Peterson
USA - Where we prize balls over brains. !!YABBADABBA!!
pennymachines
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Re: I need balls!

Post by pennymachines »

Hey Rivierakid,
The balls I supply are all new and shiny but, if you let me know the dimensions, I may have some old wrinkly ones in my pocket somewhere. !SMILER!
I do have some used/worn/dull ones which you can have for price of postage if they're suitable.
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gameswat
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Re: I need balls!

Post by gameswat »

Hi Riviera, very nice machine. But maybe you can answer a question for me? The seller claimed that both this and the Conquers Flags model were totally unrestored, yet both have matching red felt without even a blemish. Do you think it's been changed? The red should have faded by now and at least show some ball marks or the odd moth eaten spots. The mech photo for the Conquers showed new springs so at least that work had been done. And the instruction card on that one had extra pin holes next to the pins, so looked like it had been off at some point. Thanks.
rivierakid
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Re: I need balls!

Post by rivierakid »

Hi there, I actually ended up buying both machines. Always a risk buying from photos but I figured I was unlikely to see these type of machines again so took the gamble. Having now had a good look at them I'd say they have been carefully restored in the past. Like you, I cant believe the felt is getting on for 100 years old but it doesnt look new either so if it is replacement then it's been symaphetically done. The instruction cards have definitely been removed and refixed and on the Victory Flag machine whoever replaced them has repositioned them further away from the ball run - I think this was probably done to avoid the odd wayward ball damaging the cards as it appears to have done in the past. Overall the machines are complete, fully working and I reckon 95% original - so I'm glad I took the gamble. Now if I can only find an early allwin reserve in similar condition!!
rivierakid
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Re: I need balls!

Post by rivierakid »

PennyMachines wrote:Hey Rivierakid,
The balls I supply are all new and shiny but, if you let me know the dimensions, I may have some old wrinkly ones in my pocket somewhere. !SMILER!
I do have some used/worn/dull ones which you can have for price of postage if they're suitable.
Thanks for the reply. Since I posted my message I've now worked out how this machine seems to mysterioulsy transport the ball from the bottom of the machine to bring it into play at the top of the pins. There is an ingenious ball lifter mech which is in effect a tube of balls the full height of the mechanism. So as a ball is taken in at the bottom it forces out a different ball from the top of the tube - I guess the machine probably contains more than 30 balls. Anyway getting back to the question most of the balls in the machine are half inch diameter although there appear to be some older, more tarnished balls that are a tiny fraction smaller. I only need a couple to return the machine to six-ball play, so if you have anything suitable them please drop me a private message and I'll arrrange postage. Many thanks.
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gameswat
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Re: I need balls!

Post by gameswat »

Hey Riviera, did you get any tokens with either machine? I also have the Conquerors Flags machine and thus far have only found this one token that must be for the game. Just has a "1" on the other side. Mine is a basket case but I have half of another example to help me out. And was able to spend time with a lovely original to photograph those flags and shield to make new water decals.
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conquerors token.jpg
rivierakid
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Re: I need balls!

Post by rivierakid »

Hmmm interesting. Both my machines are on penny payout so there were no tokens in the machines.
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gameswat
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Re: I need balls!

Post by gameswat »

Riviera, I'll have to drag my machines out of storage but I'm pretty sure mine is actually the same and not a token payout after all! I'm getting forgetful, though it's been at least a few years since I've looked at them and even then I didn't look that closely. Not sure what that token belongs to then? Maybe they did make a token payout version??
jingle
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Re: I need balls!

Post by jingle »

this is what it should look like
i dug this picture out of my pc
when i seen these on ebay
this machine is nr 100 years old
can you see the difference
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PICT5867.JPG
aristomatic
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US collector with Victory Flags

Post by aristomatic »

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Victory Flag1.jpg
Victory Flag1.jpg (32.93 KiB) Viewed 5272 times
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gameswat
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by gameswat »

Nice machine though for such an early beast is very over restored, especially with that brand new background baize. And the patched in wood wasn't done well, by the lock is terrible, looks like fir or something?
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arrgee
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by arrgee »

Interesting reply from Freddy Bailey:

Al,
Your machine was made in 1913 by Bill Thompson, his company was called The Coin Operating Company based in Birmingham, the original machine was called AllieI Flags, but after World War I he called it the Concoring Flags, or the Victory Flags, prior to World War I The German company Jentzsch & Meer started a law suite over copyright, but when the first World War broke out in 1914, the law suite could not go ahead and Thompson carried on making copies of the German machines including the popular Clown model. Bill Thompson died in 1939.

Your machine unfortunately is not very collectable here in the States, in Europe it would bring around $1,200-$1.700 if it is totally original, I would suggest you contact The Gauselmann Museum in Germany, they may be interested, they have about 700 wall machines in their collection.
Freddy Bailey
The Official British Coin Machine Historian
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gameswat
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by gameswat »

I've never seen these claimed as so early. Was going to do some more research into these anyway as have a Conquering Flags to restore.
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arrgee
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by arrgee »

It will be interesting to see what your research comes up with GW. No doubt you will be posting your progress on the Flags machine restoration /\UK/\
Gameswat wrote:I've never seen these claimed as so early
I have dug this out of my hard drive, been sitting there since 2007, when I saw it. It was advertised as being made in 1916 by the Automatic Novelty Co :!?!:
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Conquerors Flags Automatic Novelty Co 1916 A.jpg
sweetmeats
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by sweetmeats »

The machine shown by Arrgee is Allied Flags. I agree with both the date and manufacturer. The third similar machine, and the most complicated, is called the Conquerors' Flags (picture added below). This has parts similar to Handan-I machines, so may have been made by them?
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gameswat
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by gameswat »

A few Conquerors' Flags mech photos showing the complexity.
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IMG_3116.jpg
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arrgee
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Re: us collector with victory flag

Post by arrgee »

Very nice example Sweetmeats
I see the actual catching cup has what looks like a Bulldog motif, I wonder whether this is a WW1 machine with the motif serving as an analogy of the British Bulldog fighting spirit and aggression that this fellow has always had.
"over the top chaps! British Bulldog spirit - tally hoo!"
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coppinpr
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Re: US collector with Victory Flags

Post by coppinpr »

arrgee wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:59 amIt was advertised as being made in 1916 by the Automatic Novelty Co
It couldn't have been made in 1916, it does not have the Japanese flag which disappears from the "flags of the allies" by late 1916 (although technically they stayed in the war till the end) but, more importantly, it does have the American flag who did not join the war till 1917. :didact: :lol:
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